ozero

Thanks, Jobar. It is interesting. I've used the programmer
analogy with Christian friends - would you program a world
populated with virtual beings that did what your program told
them to and then set up an infinite loop of pain for any little
beings who didn't accept you as the programmer? (One did
claim that he would do that for some bugs in his applications. )

I am of the opinion that evangelical athiests are as wrong as
evangelical thiests. One point I was trying to make is that it
is impossible to prove the non-existance of a god that at least
theortically could control, intervene, whatever in our world. But
I was also looking for any reason for us to consider that our
world is one type or another. If it is a reasonable proposition,
then there should be something like Drake's equation that
is supposed to say how many intelligent races there are in our
galaxy or universe. Taking a further step, if this is a logical step
for an intelligent species and these beings are able to create a
physical system that will last not millions of years, but trillions,
spanning the age of universes themselves, then perhaps it is
more probable that we do live in a virtual world of our own
creation. Existance of an intelligent species in a natural world
would only be measured in the thousands of years, but in the
virtual world in billions or trillions or ?.

Is there anything that might differentiate a virtual world existing
within the confines of a greater natural world (the laws of which
might not be the same as our virtual world) from a purely natural
universe.

I think the reason we would have this construct is just to keep
living. The meaning of life being just life, to experience the
universe.

Scottyman

It is not possible to be evangelical and atheist, that is an oxymoron.

If human beings did not exist, "god" would not exist for he/she/it is solely a creation of the human mind. The belief formed out of the pre-science humans need to explain natural events in ways they could not understand. In my whole life I have not nor have I ever met any person that could substantiate with any reasonable degree a so-called "godlike" phenomenon.

Scottyman

Welcome to the board Ozero.

Sorry my posts are kind of backwards. I hadn't had time to read everything before I made the early one. This is a subject I've been fascinated by over the last couple years and there are plenty of people that are actually working on the idea. You might want to check out this website http://www.aleph.se/Trans/
Scottyman

ozero

Thank you, Scottyman. That seems to be exactly what I was
thinking about. Lots to read on consider anyway and maybe
there'll be a clue as to whether we could detect whether or
not we are already there and just playing a video game called
"human life" or if it's a target. If it's just a sim then when we
reached the same level as our real selves, the game would be
over and we'd all just die... Maybe not. Maybe the program is
protected so that when someone figures it out, the master
control kills him of.....aaaarrrgh.....

Darth Dane

Ozero:

Well what if the program that we are in, is also constructed to give freewill, for those who wants it. Karma = programmed, if you do the same as always, yo will get the same result as always.
Neo from Matrix could re-program the application running ona computer.

Buddha and Jesus and many others have reportedly reached this realization.
But then again, maybe thats part of the program as well, to give us the illusion of trancendence, but wait then it means that Buddha was partially right: samsara is an illusion -> we are not real....

I've used the same analogy, although for slightly different purposes and it is a very good one.





Love blesses your heart every day.




DD - Love Spliff

ozero

I have no idea what free will is or is not.
I've had such good luck with this forum, though, perhaps
someone will direct me to a discussion of this. My personal
suspicion is that it doesn't really exist. Well, not if I don't
want it to anyway...

Koyaanisqatsi

How? In their "message," or just their zeal?

You'd have to first establish the existence of said god, of course and then offer that proof up to scrutiny (i.e., the evidence supporting your claim), but, small point.

Un hunh...?

You mean a "theorem?"

Whoa, whoa, whoa. How so? Where does the "virtual world" come into it and why necessarily would it be of "our own creation?

Or tens and twenties, right? So long as we're simply guessing...

I'm not sure. Have you stopped beating your wife?

Let me ask the same question of you in a different way, "Is there anything that might differentiate a ficticious world existing in the mind of an author from our own 'natural' world?"

The answer then becomes obvious.

You need to pretend a fairy god king exists in order to keep living? Why?

Exactly what element of a mythological creature do you require to "experience" the universe?

Biff the unclean

A mermaid might be nice for a change.

NightWatchman

see thread is god photons and dna

NightWatchman, you should not just direct others to a thread like this- you should say why it is relevant to the topic. Also you should provide a link. Any further messages of this sort will be removed unless you say how the thread you are referring to relates to the one you are actually posting in. Jobar, moderator.

ozero

To Koyaa...
Re: the evangelical athiests, yes to both. The athiest believes
strongly there is no god, the thiest believes there is. Both get
emotional in discussing the subject. Did I find one in you?

"You'd have to first establish the existence of said god, ..."
No, you don't. That's not the way the world or science works.
You'd make a fine teleevangelist: Show me that link between
humans and apes! You have to establish....
We have no evidence for extraterrestrial life, but it is a legitimate
scientific question (and no, it's not generally referred to as
"Drake's Theorem". Do a google search.) I am positing that
intelligent beings do not go out into space (it is just too damn
big) but withdraw to a more secure world, where they live out
virtual lives filled with interesting adventures and from which
they awaken after death. Kind of like the end of a video game.
These virtual lives would be controlled by something very much
like how many religions define god - something that creates the
universe and has something to do with our place in it.

"Or tens and twenties, right?" Wrong. Sorry, you missed the
point or I was unclear in explaining it. Based on your
"necessarily" following my "probably", I'd suspect both.

You say:
"Let me ask the same question of you in a different way, "Is there anything that might differentiate a ficticious world existing in the mind of an author from our own 'natural' world?"

The answer then becomes obvious. "

Ok, what's the answer to that one? Or is it really that obvious
or have you even thought about it. It is a legitimate question.

If you must attribute advances such as heart pacemakers to a
fairy god king, then perhaps you need one. It is not uncommon
for primitive peoples to make such attributions. Seems wierd to
me, but then so did your response.

To Biff:
"A mermaid might be nice for a change." Sorry, but I think you'll
have to try a Wiccan site. What did you want to change her into
anyway....?