Freethought & Rationalism Archive

butswana · 03-07-2002, 07:49 AM

<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,47298,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,47298,00.html</a>

Jamie_L · 03-07-2002, 11:51 AM

Man this chaps my shorts:

"...the city suggested erecting new markers to accompany the existing Ten Commandments monument. City officials suggested erecting markers bearing texts of four other documents considered to be pillars of the nation's legal system � the Bill of Rights, the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and the Magna Carta"

How many times does someone have to say it: the Ten Commandments is NOT a piller of the U.S. legal system. They happen to have a couple of items in common, and several more in contradiction, and the former had about as much influence on the latter as the legal doctrines of the Aztecs (which I'm sure also prohibited murder and theft).

I mean, can you honestly stick the first commandment side by side with the first amendment and say "yeah, clearly one flows from the other"? Posting these documents next to the 10Cs doesn't make the 10Cs any less a government endorsement of religion.

ARGGGHHH!!!!

03-07-2002, 11:57 AM

Judge Sharp doesn't quite live up to his name.

cartman · 03-07-2002, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamie_L:
Man this chaps my shorts...
How many times does someone have to say it: the Ten Commandments is NOT a piller of the U.S. legal system.... ARGGGHHH!!!!

Exactly! Whenever I read of another instance of this nonsense, it just makes me tired. Where to begin?

This (trying to make the 10C's a basis for our laws) is the newest tactic of the Christian Right. My own county commissioners recently voted for a similar proposal. Naturally I let my views be known to the local paper. It remains to be seen if it will have any impact. (It's doubtful-- I'm sure a majority of my neighbors think posting the 10C's will solve all of our societal ills!)

03-07-2002, 03:16 PM

Well the fundies may have won in Indiana, but in Philadelphia a judge ordered the 10C's to come down.

<a href="http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/2805269.htm" target="_blank">Read about it here</a>

uhcord · 03-07-2002, 04:04 PM

<a href="http://www.au.org/press/pr030702.htm" target="_blank">Another ....</a>

Another story pretty similiar to this ....

gravitybow · 03-08-2002, 12:53 PM

This thread reminds me of a letter writing campaign I had versus my hometown paper in North Carolina concerning historical renditions, featuring the Ten C's, posted in various government buildings. I think I wrote about seven letters in all. This one was in response to an editorial advocating postings in schools.

Quote:

To the Editor:

You remember Sesame Street, don’t you? "One of these things is not like the others" was a nice little ditty that taught many a child how to spot differences in a group of objects. Now here’s the group you provide in your July 30 editorial: the Ten Commandments, Washington crossing the Delaware, the Marines hoisting Old Glory on Iwo Jima, the signing of the Constitution, and the Japanese surrender aboard the Missouri with Gen. Douglas MacArthur. Which one of these things is not like the others? Give up?

The Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments, specifically the story of God giving Moses the Decalogue, is not a historical moment in the great American story. It is a story originating from a nomadic people in a land thousands of miles away in a time thousands of years ago. I doubt any of them were Americans.

Your editorial: "America has some wonderful historical pictures to offer. Democracy’s struggle through the years presents humanity with an ever developing story of what constitutes real greatness. It would be nice to have some of that greatness portrayed on the walls of our schools and courthouses." So what is stopping you? Please post all, not just some, of that greatness. Post Washington crossing the Delaware (although Leutze’s famous painting is historically inaccurate). Post the Marines at Iwo Jima and the signing of the Constitution and the Japanese surrender and all the other historical moments in the great American story you can muster. But the Ten Commandments doesn’t belong in that group.

Please, spend a little more money to better educate the children of North Carolina about the American story. But don’t take it out of their pockets to fight a legal battle you’re almost sure to lose.

Ahhh! I feel another letter coming on. Quick! Pass me a pen!

G-dfree · 03-09-2002, 08:59 PM

G-bow, excellent letter. Hope the words seeped into their granite brains.

Did satan help you write that?

gravitybow · 03-11-2002, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by G-dfree:
<strong>G-bow, excellent letter. Hope the words seeped into their granite brains.

Did satan help you write that?

</strong>

Are you kidding, G-dfree? I went up against one of the most beloved figures in my hometown. The editor, who is in his nineties, has been around forever and knows everyone and everything. In some of my other letters, I defended Hindus and Buddhists and I questioned the Trinity. My brother asked why I was doing this. As far as most are concerned, I am Satan.

Satan appreciates your compliment.

[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: gravitybow ]</p>

Amulet · 03-11-2002, 01:05 PM

The woman in Philadelphia who got the Ten Commandments taken down allegedly received death threats. So much for the loving Christians.

Now, I realize I could easily be proven wrong, but off the top of my head, I don't think I've ever heard of an atheist, agnostic, or other freethinker who issued death threats towards a fundie (as much as we'd like to smack'em sometimes). But I've heard numerous accounts of freethinkers being the recipients of death threats. Makes ya think, doesn't it?

(This is not an actual quote, just my view of the message being sent by fundies: )
Christian: "I love you, but if you try to separate church and state, I'm going to kill you!"

If the fundies want a religious message on government property, why not put up the Wiccan Rede: "Do as thou wilt, an' harm none." Surely, they'd have no problem with a different religion's message?

03-07-2002, 07:49 AM	#1
butswana Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,804	Judge Settles Ten Commandments Dispute <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,47298,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,47298,00.html</a>

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03-07-2002, 11:51 AM	#2
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	Man this chaps my shorts: "...the city suggested erecting new markers to accompany the existing Ten Commandments monument. City officials suggested erecting markers bearing texts of four other documents considered to be pillars of the nation's legal system � the Bill of Rights, the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and the Magna Carta" How many times does someone have to say it: the Ten Commandments is NOT a piller of the U.S. legal system. They happen to have a couple of items in common, and several more in contradiction, and the former had about as much influence on the latter as the legal doctrines of the Aztecs (which I'm sure also prohibited murder and theft). I mean, can you honestly stick the first commandment side by side with the first amendment and say "yeah, clearly one flows from the other"? Posting these documents next to the 10Cs doesn't make the 10Cs any less a government endorsement of religion. ARGGGHHH!!!!

03-07-2002, 11:57 AM	#3
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	Judge Sharp doesn't quite live up to his name.

03-07-2002, 03:16 PM	#5
atheist_in_foxhole Guest Posts: n/a	Well the fundies may have won in Indiana, but in Philadelphia a judge ordered the 10C's to come down. <a href="http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/2805269.htm" target="_blank">Read about it here</a>

03-07-2002, 04:04 PM	#6
uhcord Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,158	<a href="http://www.au.org/press/pr030702.htm" target="_blank">Another ....</a> Another story pretty similiar to this ....

03-09-2002, 08:59 PM	#8
G-dfree Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: over the hills and far away Posts: 47	G-bow, excellent letter. Hope the words seeped into their granite brains. Did satan help you write that?

03-11-2002, 01:05 PM	#10
Amulet Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Southern NJ Posts: 34	The woman in Philadelphia who got the Ten Commandments taken down allegedly received death threats. So much for the loving Christians. Now, I realize I could easily be proven wrong, but off the top of my head, I don't think I've ever heard of an atheist, agnostic, or other freethinker who issued death threats towards a fundie (as much as we'd like to smack'em sometimes). But I've heard numerous accounts of freethinkers being the recipients of death threats. Makes ya think, doesn't it? (This is not an actual quote, just my view of the message being sent by fundies: ) Christian: "I love you, but if you try to separate church and state, I'm going to kill you!" If the fundies want a religious message on government property, why not put up the Wiccan Rede: "Do as thou wilt, an' harm none." Surely, they'd have no problem with a different religion's message?

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