Mageth

But to terminate their existence wouldn't be punishment for their sins.

Huh? Just how much punishment does one sin, even a lifetime of sin, deserve? You really have no conception of eternity, do you?

How many trillions of eons does god require as punishment for each individual sin in a human's life? Answer: that's not enough; keep the suffering coming. Cheated on a test? Eternity of suffering. Told a lie? another eternity of suffering. Knowingly exceeded the speed limit? Tack on another eternity for each infraction.

And where's the "omnibenevolence", or even one iota of benevolence, in a god that insists on an eternity of horrible suffereing for each "sin" a person commits in his or her life?

The whole concept is disgusting. If it disgusts me, why does it not disgust god? Am I more moral, more benevolent, than god?

Obviously you don't agree with sinning against God being any big deal, but it is...

I guess so, since an otherwise perfectly moral, kind and loving person who did everything possible to live by the golden rule and whose only "sin" was not "accepting Jesus" (and perhaps an occasional bad thought, or "Damn!" when they hurt themselves) is condemned to eternal torment in Hell by god for that "sin".

...which is why humans end up in Hell. Their own sins.

The tired old "you send yourself to Hell" argument, used to make sensitive Xians feel better about their cruel monster of a god? If god created everything, he created hell and the necessity for such punishment, for "sinners" to go to hell and suffer for eternity.

And so much for free will; I right now say that, if your god/hell exists, I choose not to go to hell. Guess what, if your god exists, he's sending me there anyways, no matter where I choose to go or not to go.

Mageth

I lost respect for most atheists on this board a long time ago with their constant insults, sarcasm, obnoxious remarks, and blasphemy of a God they don't even believe in, whats your point?

Magus, many of us here don't believe in the fantasies you do. I can't blaspheme a god that doesn't exist. Get over it.

My purpose of coming here was not to make friends. Ill stick with my friends on Christian boards who don't act like jerks every other post just because someone doesn't agree with them.

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen, I guess. (BTW, I think you're greatly exaggerating the "jerk" bit - just because someone disagrees with your opinions/beliefs and expressess that disagreement doesn't make the person a "jerk").

You've obviously had limited exposure to many Xian posters on this board and Theist boards, who are quite able to act like jerks to those who challenge their beliefs, or even on some boards taking the draconian step of banning non-believers outright.

Jhn 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Jesus said Christians would be persecuted and hated for following Him, so its not like i'm surprised.

Oh, dear. Poor Magus feels persecuted. :boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo: But glory hallelujah he's winning brownie points in heaven!

I hardly think Jesus was talking about some atheists on a Forum disagreeing with you and pointing out counter-arguments to your beliefs, no matter how harsh some of those posters are.

Unless you're comparing what you've supposedly "suffered" here to the persecutions that Jesus reportedly suffered.

Mageth

I'd point out, Magus, that in the Revelations passages you cited, nowhere is it indicated that humans cast into the lake of fire will suffer for all eternity. Indeed, a couple of them refer to it as "the second death"; eternal existence suffering in hell is not exactly what I'd call "death".

Demigawd

:boohoo:

Well, I'm sure you think you're doing the work of your imaginary sky-daddy by witnessing to us hell-bound sinners, but from my point of view, you've come to a place of honest discussion DEMANDING that we believe and honor your mythology because you've already made up your mind that it's the only truth available to humanity. And when folks here point to contrary-to-your-dogma evidence supported by observable and testable scholarship, you stamp your feet and throw a temper tantrum.

You've done nothing here aside from demonstrating a close-minded arrogance wrapped in ignorance. Your "arguments" are not unique. Since I've been a member of this site, I've seen quite a few evangelicals who rant and rave at us just like you do.

If you wish to earn respect and consideration, you have to give respect and consideration. I haven't observed you once giving any respect or consideration to any belief outside of your own. So, what you take as insults and sarcasm directed at you is a result of you receiving back what you give to us.

mike_decock

So God kept everyone ignorant about Hell for thousands of years? The absence of Hell in the OT is a strong indication that it is a later invention.

The word rendered here as "hell" is actually hades. It proves the hellenistic influence on the author.

I'm not confused about the concept of hell. I'm also not confused by the idea that it is a literal place.

-Mike...

Mageth

Ill stick with my friends on Christian boards who don't act like jerks every other post just because someone doesn't agree with them.

Suddenly, the irony of this statement struck me like a ton of bricks. This statement was made by the same person who is on this very thread claiming that those that "don't agree with him" in regards to his Jesus God are destined for eternal suffering in hell.

And you feel "persecuted", Magus

Do you find comfort in the fact that those who "act like jerks" to you on this board will each suffer an eternity of suffering for each such infraction?

Magus55

I didn't decide your fate. I'm just telling you what the Bible says. How is that persecution? You could care less about it since you don't believe it exists. Shouldn't phase you in the least.

Demigawd

How can a supposed majority be persecuted? I suppose it all goes back to the concept of True Christians (tm) versus all those fake ones. In the mind of a fanatic, all those false members are in league with us Satan-worshipping atheists anyways.

Demigawd

If you could understand this anxiety comes from the convictions and subsequent actions of believers of your dogma rather than the dogma itself, you'd not be so confused.

Mageth

I didn't decide your fate.

And, according to you, neither do I. God makes the fate decision for me. I do not choose to go to hell. But you sure seem more than willing to condemn us to that fate, and seem to think an infinity of suffering as punishment for a finite life of "sin" is somehow justified.

I'm just telling you what the Bible says.

No, you're telling us what you think the bible says. I don't think the bible is as clear-cut about this as you claim.

How is that persecution?

Telling me I'm going to hell to suffer for eternity? Figure it out for yourself.

Edited to add: Note that most of my family think the same about me and perhaps you'll begin to understand.

You could care less about it since you don't believe it exists. Shouldn't phase you in the least.

What, people telling me I'm going to hell to suffer for eternity shouldn't "phase" (sic) me? Knowing that most of my family thinks the same?

You sure seem fazed by us telling you we're not going to hell, that you're not going to heaven, that your god doesn't exist, and that your living in a world of make-believe.