Anna Karenina

In vitro fertilisation is out of my sight. I cannot conceive having a child that way. To me, a child must be the result of a natural creation, with two persons involved in his conception. I do not want an anonymous donor who I will never meet. As I said before:

1. The guy who will become the father is determinant for me.
2. I do not care about the legal implications because I am willing to share custody with him.

I know that in the future my feelings could change. I am contemplating all the negative and positive consequences of this decision. I will talk to him about it. I really want him to get involved with us but if he says no, then it will be o.k.

If in the future he changes his mind, then I will be happy to let him see the child. I have nothing to lose and a lot to win. What else could make me more happy than having a child?.

I am not going to reject that opportunity just because I am concern about the legal implications in the future.

This does not represent any threat to me. In fact, from the beginning I will ask him if he wants to have some legal rights over the child. However, I will not allow him to ask for full custody. If before getting pregnant, he even suggests this possibility, then I will stop everything.


I will think of adoption if I find out that I cannot get pregnant. Otherwise, adoption remains in the third place on my list.
I live in a very traditional society, it will be very difficult to have a child of my own, and adopting a child could be even twice more difficult for me. I don't think I am strong enough to cope with these difficulties.

That is great.

I have thought about donating my eggs. But I will do it after I get my child. There are so many loving couples who cannot have children, I think this is a wonderful way to help them.

Are there many risks involved in this?

Thanks for your words. I really appreciate your comments.

Anna

Anna Karenina

I think you are taking my words out of context.
You believe that women are not capable of giving a happy life to their children.

You are wrong. As brighid said, it matters the quality of the family not the quantity.

Anna Karenina

I will do my best to provide my child with a decent life. But I cannot control the rest of the system. There is no difference at all between a couple who want to have a child and me!.

Why?

It seems that the pregnancy of a single woman is subject to more emotional, legal and material conditions than a normal couple.

Why society puts more pressure on a single woman?

Why we have to show that we are capable of having a child, when millions of irresponsible married women and teens have their children without all these conditions and pressure?


I am capable of having a child. I have a successful career, I own a house, I have savings, education, youth, health, what else should I say to prove that I am capable of having a child?

Oh yes, I don't have a MAN by my side.

I wonder if a married woman should read tons of books about having and raising a child. I wonder if she has to make a list of costs and risks about it. I wonder if she has to consider adoption before thinking of having a child of her own...

The truth is that we live in a patriarchal society where having a man by my side gives me automatic rights to decide on my body and motherhood.

I am sick of that. I cannot accept that argument.

This is not against you, brighid. Do not misunderstand. It is just that the responses I get from people seems to send this message. I am a feminist and I cannot accept that.

Anna

lisarea

Well, I had an accidental stealth pregnancy that I didn't know about until I was maybe four months along. I won't kid myself that absentmindedness and irresponsibility makes me look better than anyone else, though.

I didn't really choose to be a parent of my own volition, but I did actively choose to be a single parent. I left my husband when my son was two weeks old, and I've raised him on my own since. I've enjoyed it, too. I'm almost impossibly happy that I did those stupid things.

I was raised in a very happy, healthy, two parent family, and somehow, my son is far better off than my siblings and I were at his age. He's one of the best adjusted people I have ever met. Literally. He's brilliant, he's popular, good natured, strong willed, and remarkably mature. He's a genuinely kind person, too, and goes out of his way to help people whenever he can. He's got barely a hint of the social anxiety and depression and general teenaged angst that my siblings and I all went through during adolescence. He's had plenty of male role models, from family members, friends, and yes, even me. I do the 'man stuff' in our house, take him to ball games, and things like that. I might not actually be a man, but that doesn't preclude me teaching my child to get along in the world regardless of sex roles. And as a nice little side benefit, he's remarkably unmisogynistic for a 17 year old boy.

I'm not saying that it's the right decision for you. I know it was the right decision for me, simply because his natural father wasn't really much of an option; and because--here's the selfish part--I wasn't about to let some guy come in and parent my child.

I'm sure you could and some will argue that he's got all kinds of unresolved issues and problems that I'm unaware of or in denial about, but so be it. Maybe it's true. Maybe he would be some kind of flying, ninja fighting, master diplomat Doogie Howser by now if he'd had a dad, but even without that, he's still better than anyone else's kid.

I have no idea if it's the right decision for you, though. All I can tell is that it really is a lot of hard work. You have to give up a lot of things for yourself, and live the rest of your life with nagging mom worries. (Everyone seems to forget to warn people about that.)

Whatever you decide, good luck.

brighid

I realize that IVF seems impersonal and "unnatural" because it is not done the "old fashioned" way, but so is any medical procedure if you think about it. Surgery is "unnatural" and so are manufactured medicines. It's unnatural for man to drive cars, fly planes, of even communicate via cyberspace. The same goes with IVF, a sperm and an egg are joined with the aide of medical science developed through the very natural human brain. Furthermore, it is done within the natural realm of life and therefore cannot actually be "unnatural."

I also realize that there is some sort of stigma attached to going this unconventional route to reproduce a human offspring. That is unfortunate. It isn't any less valid a conception, or any less a real child.

You can know MUCH, often more about your donor then you might even yet know about his gentleman. You are provided with pictures, likes, dislikes, educational background, family history and medical history.

If you are really worried about the social consequences in your society do you think having a child with a man you are not married to, who does not at this point love you, who you want to parent your child but don't care what his role is ... do you honestly think that will be the "favorable" circumstances to have and raise a child under?

I am going to be very frank because I feel the situation warrants it, but I do not know the inner workings of your mind (or heart) and I am basing my conclusions only on what you have presented, so please forgive any errors made by lack of information.

Anna, I do not think you (at this point) fully appreciate, or understand the enoromity of the changes a child will bring into your life, and although you fully believe that you will be happy regardless of his decision I personally feel that is a bit naive and potentially devastating when reality hits. I am not sure if I can even begin to explain how one changes when the situation is real and not just a happy musing. You say you don't care right now, but if that does not change I would be incredibly surprised. In fact I would be utterly shocked and dismayed because once that child is placed in your arms your world changes in ways you cannot yet imagine. I mean this with the utmost sincerity, as a woman who has taken the path you are taking now.

This man's feelings will likely change as well. What will happen if and when you meet the man you DO fall in love with, who isn't the father of your child? Do you understand how difficult it is to integrate or blend families? How will you explain your choice to this future mate?

What if this man decides he wants full custody later? You say that disqualifies him now, but are you prepared to undertake that task and potentially lose your child if he changes his mind? It can and does happen, and if nothing else the legal battle is nothing short of emotional rape in a very public setting.

Also, please understand that I say these things not to offend your sensibilities but to help you realize (if you haven't already) the harm I know is very, very likely to follow because I have lived the aftermath of this kind of decision: getting pregnant the natural way out of wedlock, a father who said he didn't want to be involved (and I was perfectly fine with that at the time), who 18 months later decided he wanted full custody of our son, the legal battles, the financial devastation, the pain it caused my child that can never be fully erased, and all the hardship, trial, tribulation and triumph that went with it. I honestly would not wish my experience on my worst enemy, and although I have emerged from that hell as a stronger woman I know many, many men and women that succumb to those pressures.

The choices you wish to make will have great impact on 3 lives. If you truly want a child and desire to be a parent you should learn the absolute necessity of self-sacrifice right now. You can get what you want, but not exactly as you may want it. As a parent to be, and when you become a parent your child's needs come first and foremost (or atleast they should be of the highest priority.) What is best for your child is what you must always keep in mind, sacrificing your pride, your needs and desires when it is appropriate for the well being of that tiny human being in your care.

If, as you say, you live in a society that won't accept a more unconventional approach you really need to take this into consideration. How will this society treat this child knowing he/she (and for lack of a better word) is a bastard? Would your society treat an adopted child more favorably? Will you be forced to lie to protect your child from ridicule and harm? What sort of life lesson will that teach this child? How will all this help or hinder the growth of his/her self-esteem? Will you be socially chastised and punished for this choice?

If you want to raise a child with this man (or any other) you are much better doing it the "old fashioned" way and waiting until you do find a man to marry and share this parenting experience with, so there are no questions as to whether or not he wants to parent now, or in the future. If Mr. Right has not come along yet, then under you particular circumstances and for the welfare of any child born from your womb, you are likely best off foregoing this decision or adopting to legitimize the place this child has in your home and in the eyes of a traditional, patriarchal society.

Parenting is probably one of life's most difficult jobs. Single parenting is far more difficult to put it lightly. A child changes everything in your life: how you perceive the world, what you want, what you fear, what you need and it leaves you vulnerable in ways that truly cannot be appreciated until the time you find yourself gripped in fear that if you let your child out of your sight for a moment some awful person will abduct him, or how your heart feels it is being ripped from your chest when you see his father fail to show up for yet another visitation, or when your baby repeats something awful his father said, or how you vomit after putting your child to bed the night you make your first visit to the emergency room, or the unbridled joy you feel when he takes his first steps, at his first smile, his first school play, or anytime you see him sleeping like a precious, little cherub in his bed .......... I could go on ad infinitum.

I cannot stress enough how I feel your conventional choice is a recipe for disaster, and any social stigmatization you might face through IVF (or adoption) is truly nothing in comparison to what can happen on your present course of reasoning.

Taking the unconventional route will save you almost every potential problem, stigmatization, and pain thus far discussed (and many more not yet mentioned.) Adoption will do the same, but possibly even save you some of the stigmatization (and more importantly that of your child.)

Ultimately, the decision is up to you and you must chose what is best for you regardless of what anyone else says. I hope I have given you food for thought and that you take my words in the spirit that are given.

Brighid

brighid

Anna,

I would give similar advice to a married couple, or an unmarried couple wanting to have kids. I see too many irresponsible people having children and it does nothing but harm those children, and eventually society at large.

In the US the legal system does not (at least in the states I am familiar with)differentiate between the rights of a parent because of marital status. As a matter of fact, and in my case there was no provision for unmarried couples having children. You are treated the same in custody matters and the only difference is property and alimony rights (depending on the length and circumstances of the relationship.)

There really is not extra legal burden, except that you have a split parenting relationship from the beginning in your case and the other parent has legal rights that must be considered. They are simply not a point of contention in a marriage until the time of a divorce. Those legal rights are relevant now and are of paramount importance because of the problems this situation will cause because of the unanswered questions of parenting, custody, etc. You simply need to be take those into consideration now because you are choosing to have a child out of wedlock. This isn't unfair to single parents, and a matter of fact if approached properly those laws are in place to protect BOTH parents.

Well. because single parenting is a more difficult task then the traditional model AND because patriarchal societies generally wish to supress and control the lives of women. It is not fair, I agree but you must still deal with the consequences and when necessary fight the power of that corrupt system.

I think you are missing the point I, and others have been trying to make. You have all the necessary equipment to be capable of having a child, but what you seem to lack at the moment is a well thought out plan to address the very foreseeable obstacles that are inherent in your chosen path. If you address those issues NOTHING should stop you from having a child. You can also chose another path to having a child that does not present those obstacles.

I don't think you have been around long enough to know that I am that LAST woman who thinks any woman needs a "MAN" by her side for much of anything. In fact, I believe the opposite. I do not even believe that you need a man by her side if you chose wisely, but you have not given me the impression you are completely ready to take on this task.

SHE ABSOLUTELY SHOULD!! And she should make a list of cost and risks because those things are very real considerations that too few married couples actually take into consideration before embarking on the journey of parenting. MUCH strife and misfortune can be avoided if every person considering having a child (or having unprotected sex) carefully thought those things through. A lot of unneccessary pressure is placed on couples that often leads to marital strife and divorce because they fail to plan and consider the obvious.



I know this is not against me. I am a feminist as well and there are plenty of societal crap that I cannot and do not accept. I do not suggest that you accept it either, but some of that societal crap is important to consider and weigh when bringing another life into this world. It is perfectly acceptable for you to fight the system, but I am not sure it is acceptable to bring a child into that situation under the circumstances you are leaning toward. You can still have what you desire, but as I said in my previous post ... just maybe not exactly as you desire it.

I do believe that you can be a very successful single parent, even with a "traditional" method of conception But you have to be prepared for all those things that have been outlined, and you have just not (IMHO) conveyed that you are right at this moment. But isn't that what this dialogue is for? To talk, vent, learn and hopefully find solutions to your dilemma?

Now you can do whatever you wish with my thoughts and opinions. You can tell me to stick them where the sun doesn't shine. I am okay with that. You are the ultimate arbitor of your chosen fate. I am just honestly and sincerely trying to help prepare you for what I know will very likely come your way, not because I think a woman needs a man, but because I wished someone was there to share their experience with me. Truly, that is all. If I can help any man, or woman avert the disasters I walked full on into ...well then those experience will be worth the hell I paid.

I hope nothing but the best for you.

Brighid

yguy

I have absolute faith in your ability to give your son all the happiness that resenting your father all these years has given you.

Believe me, ma'am, I am quite cognizant of that.

lisarea

I can issue the same warnings, essentially, as brighid's, from a slightly different perspective. Again, there's no telling what portion of anything would be relevant to your situation. All we can do is tell stories, really.

At some point after my son was born, I made a very conscious decision to stay single. I considered the options, and simply chose that I wanted to raise him on my own. Trust me, if I had believed that it was in my son's better interests, I would've gone and gotten me the biggest fake boobs in the world and stuck them in the face of every man I saw until I tricked some poor schmoe into marrying me. Now, I completely believe in the idea of adults being able to fend for themselves, I am proud of the fact that the only man who ever financially supported me was my father, and I am personally opposed to the whole concept of marriage. But I would not have sacrificed my son for my principles.

There've been times, here and there, when I've briefly found myself wishing there were some man around, but they're pretty easily categorized:

1. When I'm tired and don't want to cook dinner.
2. When I've been laid off and wished I had a second income to fall back on.
3. When there was some remarkably unpleasant task needing done and I wished there were adult around to foist it off on.
4. Well, you know.

None of those were worth it to me. Period. I can deal with all that. But the fact that I can deal with it does not make things easier. I can be as damned feminist and independant as I want, but it does not change the world around me.

I don't know what it's like in the UK, but I know that I generally have to pay the same health insurance rates for me and my son as do my coworkers with a spouse and a hundred kids. I was actually told by my boss, years ago, that one of the men who reported to me earned more money because "he has a family to support." Sure, it's all wrong and unfair, and there are any number of appropriate reactions to such things, ranging from legal action to illegal action. But it doesn't change that they happen in the first place.

Also remember that, when you have a child, you give a lot of things up. I'll grant that I was very young (22) when my son was born, so I missed out on the whole young adulthood thing, which may have been worse. But regardless of your age, as a single parent, you just plain have to give up more. Travel is even more impossible when there's only one of you. You can't make risky career choices, or move around or travel for your job the way you could if you were childless or even just married with kids.

Forget most dating, too. You've got to get babysitters, make all kinds of arrangements, give up any last-minute sleepovers or anything like that; and frankly, a lot of men--even some seemingly reasonable ones--get jealous of their girlfriends' children. Not all of them, but enough. And this is not a short-term phase. This situation lasts at least twelve years--probably more like fifteen.

Again, I have no idea whether any of this applies to your situation. I think I dealt with mine well, and I was not nearly as mature or as stable as you appear to be. But it was really, really hard work.

trillian

Anna,

I had the same thoughts when I turned 30, still single (with a boyfriend that I knew wasn't long term). I wondered if I would just become a single parent since I love kids and want to have my own with or without a man.

I looked into it and decided I could wait. If I didn't have my love life in order by 33, I would freeze eggs for later (since they are the "aging" factor in later pregnancies).

If I had decided then to become pregnant, I likely would not have my fiance today (I'm now 32). I never knew I could even fall in love like this after so many so-so relationships. You're only 31. There are no guarantees but you have some time.

Ironically, now that I have my life partner, I don't have the same urgency I felt before to have a child. But I now have the plan, and that was the important thing I guess.

No doubt you can be a great single parent if that's what you desire. But having a child now is also an opportunity cost to whatever your alternate future would have held and may cause difficulty with the man you may eventually spend your life with. Just something to think about.

Trillian

Ted Hoffman

She doesnt exactly hate sex does she?