Buffman

G.S.H.

Oh really? Jesse Ventura did not campaign as an atheist.

Just a few thoughts and comments for your consideration.

You are quite correct. Jesse V. did not campaign as an overt atheist. I never said he did. You are also quite correct when you say that, currently, an overt atheist doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected to a representative governmental office in this country. I never said that they had a chance. What I am saying is that you indicate that you want to runaway to some other country because atheists are discriminated against in this country, and I say that that is hardly courageous act. Any questions?

Now let's look at the charges leveled against Thomas Jefferson when he ran for president at a time when there were only a very few Americans other than free, white male, Christians who could vote. One group of Christians publicly proclaimed that he was an atheist yet he won without invoking Jesus Christ to assist him. Yes, he did believe in a supernatural God. Given the level of scientific knowledge of his day, I am hard pressed to name anyone that didn't believe in some sort of supernatural world. So try and put some perspective on the growth of non-belief over the last 200 years. It has actually been rather phenomenal...and not just here but throughout the entire world. Judaism and forms of Hinuism have been around for over 5,000 years; Christianity for 2,000; Islam for 1,400; Mormonism for 172; and Scientology for 47 years. How has any belief system been able to grow and prosper in this country? The legal and governmentally supported separation of church and state! Destroy that separation and minority belief systems will be forced underground and probably never attain the type of grown that could someday challenge the major religious sects/denominations/cults for due respect and equality of governmental representation.

Look at the history of the growth of Christianity. Until the Roman Emperor Constantine began to support Christianity and suppress Paganism, for nearly 320 years Christianity was a low-level, backwater, cult confined to the Mediterranean basin. Obviously the collusion of church and state, not its philosophical dogma, made Christianity what it is today. Look at the growth of Islam. Without church-state collusion, would its growth be so rapid? Judaism has been around much longer. It is the monotheistic founder of the other two major sects, but it has not grown. No! Why not? No church-state collusion. Just the opposite. Church-state oppression and suppression. Ask yourself how Mormonism has been able to move from a bunch of state suppressed cultists into the halls of governmental power in such a short period of time. Do you honestly think that any of the mainstream Protestant or Roman Catholic Christians believe that Mormons, or Moonies, are true Christians? So why do they vote for them? Why are they appointed to positions of governmental power?

Currently, there are only an estimated one million or less hard core atheists in the U.S. However, there are an estimated 30-40 million no religious affiliation Americans. In my opinion, that is an enormous change from the Christian exclusivity of 1791. Thus, why would anyone who loves our hard won constitutional liberties wish to runaway from America and simply hand it over to the supernatural believers by simple default?

<a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/why/legitimization.html" target="_blank">PBS From Jesus to Christ: Why did Christianity Succeed? Legitimization under Constantine</a>

<a href="http://campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/EastEurope/ConstantineConverts.html" target="_blank">Constantine Converts to Christianity</a>

{Links edited by Toto to keep page margins even}

[ November 21, 2002: Message edited by: Toto ]</p>