Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Secular Elation · 06-27-2002, 09:32 PM

Arrowman · 06-27-2002, 09:41 PM

..starting with the headline "It's unanimous! Readers don't like 'Pledge' ruling"

Did they somehow overlook one Gerald E. Leapley? Or did they not understand the point of his letter? I suspect the latter

Autonemesis · 06-27-2002, 09:48 PM

Show up at church

I just wish that even a quarter of those folks who are so almighty upset by the (possible) deletion of the phrase, "under God," from the Pledge of Allegiance, would bother to show up for church on Sunday mornings.

ANGUS BOWER, Frazier Park

Toto · 06-27-2002, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrowman:
..starting with the headline "It's unanimous! Readers don't like 'Pledge' ruling"

Did they somehow overlook one Gerald E. Leapley? Or did they not understand the point of his letter? I suspect the latter

Obviously, anyone who starts out patriotic must be for God and country.

good letter:

Quote:

Remember those who sacrificed

"I Pledge Allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." Francis Bellamy, a Christian Socialist and Baptist minister, wrote that in August, 1892.

Since then it has been changed several times, most dramatically at the behest of the Daughters of the Republic, the American Legion and the Knights of Columbus.

The Pledge is codified in the U.S. Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 1 which means I am breaking that law when I modify the Pledge to eliminate reference to the flag and God. So be it.

I pledge allegiance not to a symbol of my country, nor to a nonexistent deity, but to my country itself and the legal basis of my country, the Constitution.

I do that in remembrance of the men and women who died in our Revolution to enable the country to be conceived under the Second Continental Congress, to live briefly under the Articles of Confederation, and, finally, to succeed under the Constitution. I do it to honor the thousands who died to make our country "indivisible," thwarting Southern secession. I do it in thanks to those (including my father) who eliminated the greatest evil of the 20th century, Adolph Hitler.

If "under God" is as irrational to you as to me, then eliminate it yourself. If the Constitution deserves your allegiance rather than a symbol, then pledge to it as I do. Be assured, it is your right to do so.

GERALD E. LEAPLEY, Bakersfield

[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: Toto ]

Arrowman · 06-27-2002, 10:12 PM

What bothers me is that the great majority of the tinoy minority (if you follow) of letters supporting the decision, will be from atheists - which will just reinforce the misconception that this is entirely an atheist vs Christian issue.

I'm hoping that some liberal Christians can be persuaded to express themselves in public also.

Writer@Large · 06-28-2002, 04:15 AM

Happily, <a href="http://www.freep.com/voices/letters/elets28_20020628.htm" target="_blank">the Detroit Free Press recieved, and printed, a number of pro-decision letters</a>. Not mine, but then, mine was a little lengthy

.

--W@L

Bill Snedden · 06-28-2002, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrowman:
I'm hoping that some liberal Christians can be persuaded to express themselves in public also.

i think that the Rev. Barry Lynn has done quite a lot of that very recently, but you're quite right. There should be more.

Perhaps the Baptist Joint Committee will issue a press release soon. They are usually quite supportive of church/state separation. I'd certainly like to see them (or another religious organization) publish a statement in favor of the decision.

Bill

[ June 28, 2002: Message edited by: Bill Snedden ]

ashibaka · 06-28-2002, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secular Elation:
<a href="http://www.bakersfield.com/opinion/story/1321774p-1440726c.html" target="_blank">Oh, look at all the lies.</a>

Breakdown of the content of the letters:

1: 9th is just kidding
2: 9th is stupid ("a disgrace to God")
1: Slippery-slope
1: Pledge of Allegiance is Constitutional, removing it is not (sounds like a Creationist)
1: 9th is correct
1: God exists. Therefore, God exists.
1: Who cares about the Constitution? Christianity is the majority!
1: Show up at church
1: If you don't like it, don't say it (ignore the peer pressure!)

Hum harrum... everyone's got a different reason, apparently.

From Freep:

Quote:

God is plainly a part of our Constitution

Where? Is God hiding under the couch-cushions again? Yoohoo, God! Where are you in this Constitution, anyway? I ca'n't seem to find you!

[ June 28, 2002: Message edited by: ashibaka ]

abe smith · 06-28-2002, 06:18 AM

Where are the Episcopalians? And do everybody understand that it was the (RC) Knights of Columbus (who love dressing-up in fancy costumes & Swords?) who spent a lot of money back in the 1950s to get those two dirty words added in to the Pledge -- wh/ by the way is a NOTHING document to begin w/. If I were presently the parent of a school-aged child .. but I'm not. I wonder if my [also 1st-born} nephew has explained all-this to his only kid, my also 1st-born grandnephew? Have to ask. And I wonder what my first-born early-pubertal grandchild thinks about all this? Have to ask.

hezekiah jones · 06-28-2002, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secular Elation:
<a href="http://www.bakersfield.com/opinion/story/1321774p-1440726c.html" target="_blank">Oh, look at all the lies.</a>

Once again, nothing but irrelevancies and anecdotal outrage. I don't believe very many people have actually read the opinion. If they have, they have yet to address its reasoning.

06-27-2002, 09:32 PM	#1
Secular Elation Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: California Posts: 6,196	Today's opinion section derails court ruiling <a href="http://www.bakersfield.com/opinion/story/1321774p-1440726c.html" target="_blank">Oh, look at all the lies.</a>

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06-27-2002, 09:41 PM	#2
Arrowman Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 1,358	..starting with the headline "It's unanimous! Readers don't like 'Pledge' ruling" Did they somehow overlook one Gerald E. Leapley? Or did they not understand the point of his letter? I suspect the latter

06-27-2002, 09:48 PM	#3
Autonemesis Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: I've left FRDB for good, due to new WI&P policy Posts: 12,048	Show up at church I just wish that even a quarter of those folks who are so almighty upset by the (possible) deletion of the phrase, "under God," from the Pledge of Allegiance, would bother to show up for church on Sunday mornings. ANGUS BOWER, Frazier Park

06-27-2002, 10:12 PM	#5
Arrowman Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 1,358	What bothers me is that the great majority of the tinoy minority (if you follow) of letters supporting the decision, will be from atheists - which will just reinforce the misconception that this is entirely an atheist vs Christian issue. I'm hoping that some liberal Christians can be persuaded to express themselves in public also.

06-28-2002, 04:15 AM	#6
Writer@Large Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 7,198	Happily, <a href="http://www.freep.com/voices/letters/elets28_20020628.htm" target="_blank">the Detroit Free Press recieved, and printed, a number of pro-decision letters</a>. Not mine, but then, mine was a little lengthy . --W@L

06-28-2002, 06:18 AM	#9
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	Where are the Episcopalians? And do everybody understand that it was the (RC) Knights of Columbus (who love dressing-up in fancy costumes & Swords?) who spent a lot of money back in the 1950s to get those two dirty words added in to the Pledge -- wh/ by the way is a NOTHING document to begin w/. If I were presently the parent of a school-aged child .. but I'm not. I wonder if my [also 1st-born} nephew has explained all-this to his only kid, my also 1st-born grandnephew? Have to ask. And I wonder what my first-born early-pubertal grandchild thinks about all this? Have to ask.

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