alek0

Thanks!

They sure know the rules, its even written on the back of the form for applying for chinese visa.
China has horrendous record on human rights issues, and that concerns me a lot. However, I think that for example Falun Gong members face much worse persecution than any Christian denomination in China.

Also, I am a bit annoyed with the statement of that society from US which printed those bibles that they'll keep trying. Yeah, very nice for white men sitting safely in California to keep trying when it is little yellow Hongkongnese who gets arrested for their "keep trying".

I guess I am also torn about this issue. Frankly speaking, I am sick and tired of missionaries.
On the other hand, I support civil rights. But I guess no country will tolerate religious cults.
It is only that chinese definition of "cult" is broader than usual, and their treatment of those who break any laws is always brutal. It isn't as if christians are getting it any worse than everybody else.

Waning Moon Conrad

Merely the opinion of Christianity.

Then stop believing in Christianity because it most certainly doesn't work for the betterment of mankind.

By its fruits ye shall know it and we have no shortage of empirical proof that it creates smug, complacent people who have the repulsive arrogance to make assertions about people not having rights over their own minds.

In other words: People don't have to believe what you do believe. Butthey're not allowed to believe what you don't believe.

Well yes of course! But so does everyone else Amos, it's just that sometimes it's not a right recognized by their peers or governments.

No, it's actually because their constitution recognizes that all humans already do have certain inalienable rights such as freedom of religion.

Because they might have beliefs different from your own.

And why does that bother you? Take a good look at yourself and ask honestly.

Why can't you tolerate the fact that other human beings do not accept your opinion as empirical truth?

What's so great and cosmically mighty about you that it should be enshrined in law that nobody can believe something that you don't even though they don't have to believe what you do?

Does your position even make sense?

Ask yourself Amos.

Pandora

Personally, I think that missionaries should be banned in all countries. If people want to go and work in the developing world then they should do that from a humanitarian view point and not to gain brownie points with God.

I was brought up to think of myself as a guest in other people’s countries and that I should behave appropriately. I don’t go to someone’s house and force my atheism on them. I saw the results of missionaries on the island I grew up on. They forced their own bigoted, repressive ideas on a population who were perfectly happy with their own Gods.

I remember at school in the UK, the headmistress collecting money to pay for missionaries in Africa. I refused to give any money as I said that they needed food not God. She had an absolute fit saying that the most important thing was that they died “saved.” How sick can you get?

ecco

From Idaho:
Frankly I am a lot more concerned that the American government is trying to push a particular religious philosophy (Christianity, or at least theism) on it’s citizens in spite of our Constitution.

Orpheous99

What personal freedom? Are they American citizens on American soil?

As to missionaries, yes I agree they usually get what they deserve since they do know the laws of the country they are going into and choose to ignore them like those two girls who went to Afghanistan did. They were absolutely guilty of what they were accused of and deserved the punishment metered out for it.

[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: Orpheous99 ]</p>

ex-preacher

I am very discouraged by some of the comments made here. I am an atheist, but I strongly defend the right of anyone to practice their religion, to evangelize (without coercion), and to do so in any nation.

As non-believers, we should be at the head of the list of people defending the right of anyone to proclaim their beliefs, regardless of how offensive or wrong they are.

Note the relevant portions from the UN Declaration of Human Rights:

Article 13.
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.

(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Article 19.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

ex-idaho

I agree. We should be the first to defend the right of people to believe no matter how those beliefs may differ from our own.

I do not beleive that missionairies should be protected under international law if they are willingly breaking the law of their host country.

There is a right way and a wrong way to encourage freedom and liberty in the world.

Amos

Amos

To me this is most absurd and I must add that human rights are just a bundle of rights reserved for the lost by the lost to expand the horizon in which they can be lost. It spells the height of ignorance and lacks any inspiration.

Orpheous99

People only have these so-called basic human rights and freedoms if they are strong enough to enforce them. Once that power is gone they are just meaningless words. Just let the USA turn into a theocracy and see just how fast these so-called rights and freedoms disappear.

[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: Orpheous99 ]</p>