RJS

I have attempted to get a discussion started regarding whether atheists have an answer for the above questions, and I can't get anyone to agree with your opinion. I get a bunch of stuff about how it is a meaningless question, Occam's Razor stuff, etc. It really appears me to be more of ignoring the gaping hole in First Cause/Meaning of Life, call it what you will. At least theists see the hole and fill it, rightly or wrongly.

I would love to get this thread going somehow...my initial post was an honest post (no sarcasm intended), as it seems more logical for you to argue the atheist's view of MOL because you are taking issue with a Christian argument that there can't be one w/o God - (i.e. so tell me what it is for you then). You shouldn't be asking theists for their opinion, as you already know it and it includes God. Hence my second post about "K" who seems to agree with your argumentative Christians.

I think when we talk about Meaning of Life, it is wrong to respond with something like "I had a fun day today and did something fulfilling" - I think the question is asking for a bigger definition of Life.

RJS.

Liquidrage

Theists do not fill the hole at all.
All a theist does is claim that the hole must be filled. Well, duh! We are here we know the hole is filled.

Claiming a god fills it by an unknown (to us) method that no one can even begin to describe is no different then saying it is unknown.

As to the meaning of life, the common answer you will see around here is there is no meaning. People can give it their own meaning because they are capable of doing just that. But it doesn't mean life has an intrinsic meaning.

Philosoft

Some things have meaning because meaning is provided by us. We think in terms of how something is personally meaningful. There is no other way to assing meaning. If we ask a question, "What is the meaning of life," that we are so profoundly unable to personally answer that we must envision an invisible intelligence to somehow give life meaning, maybe that's a hint that life really doesn't have any intrinsic meaning.

You won't get very far by a priori constraining your set of possible answers to only those that can be provided by religion. You are either asking an atheist, "What do you think is the meaning of your life?" in which case they are perfectly entitled to tell you "to build suspension bridges out of legos" if they so choose; or you are asking, "What do you think your life means to God?" which will get you all sorts of answers of the form "God who?"

godlessmath

I say, that life is meaningless if it has a purpose. This because given any purpose we can always stand back and say "so what?"

Take for example, the purpose of life as being to glorify God. Well, isn't God already glorious? Then what is the use?

Paradoxically, I say that life is worthwhile, or has a meaning, only if it has no intrinsic purpose.

[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: godlessmath ]</p>

Jobar

RJS, you want the answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything. You are asking for ultimate meaning- something that is absolute and unending, and will explain all of what we see, and tell all tales.

Meaning simply doesn't work like that. Words don't work like that- and you do want your meaning to be expressible, don't you? So the meaning you seek can never be stated- it's in fact a nonsense question.

Meaning is not some sort of monolith- it is something individual, and personal.

(You know, there is a well known Zen koan, about the student who asked the Master for the meaning of life- and was chased through the woods being beaten on by the Master's staff.)

RJS

Original Post.

and the thread is taking a direction along the following...

I take from the reaction to my posts that most here would agree that the initial post is equally offbase. It would be like me stating "Please tell me how "building suspension bridges gives life "meaning"."

In which case the answer correctly would be "it just does for me". Of course such a reaction by a Christian would be grounds for digital crucifixion - so to speak

Scrambles

Well, considering my position is not that there is still meaning without God but that either:
a) There is no meaning if God does not exist, but then you cannot say that there is meaning if God does exist.
b) There is meaning either way.

Also, I am not asking for theists opinions. Of course I know them. I am asking for the reasons for their opinions!

What is the atheist's view of meaning of life? I think you may be referring to the humanist view of the meaning of life, but I'm not an expert. I'm an atheist and I think my view differs from what you see as the atheists' view.

btw are you a theist or not?

Scrambles

Scrambles

No, such a reaction from a christian would only result in an asswhooping if they then did not allow such a reaction from an atheist (which is what often happens). That's basically the point of the topic post.

Why don't you try answering these questions..

1 a) Must our existence have meaning?
1 b) [optional] What does it mean to say that our existence has meaning?

2 a) Is our existence meaningless if God does not exist?
2 b) Is our existence meaningless if God DOES exist?

3) If your answers to 2 (a) and (b) are different, please explain why.

Scrambles

RJS

yes. FYI -I assume you are familiar with the "profile' icon.

Once one comes to the belief that an eternal God exists and provides all meaning for existence - then I assume you can see how such person would be of the general opinion that those who didn't hold such belief would lack similar meaning in their life. So the "reason" that a theist believes that an athiest would be without meaning in life is fairly obvious, especially when you look at what such theist believes.

Asking the "reason" that a theist believes in the first place is a different question. But as I mentioned, I have tried to figure out how an atheist approaches the First Cause (why does all of this stuff exist), and I am frustrated with the two standard responses of 1) Occam's Razor says you don't need to go back that far, and/or 2) it is a question without meaning for any one of many different reasons (including one that related to 10 to the -47th of a second of time). Both of those seem like attempts to avoid what is behind the dark curtain.

It would seem more logical (to me) for the answer from an atheist to be "I don't know, but it all must have happened for a reason, but I don't think it had to do with a God."

g'night.

[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: RJS ]</p>

Scrambles

Could you please tell me how God "supplies all meaning" for existence? This needs explaining before we can move on. Also, this sounds suspiciously like something a presuppositionalist would say.


Scrambles