Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Secular Elation · 08-23-2002, 07:18 PM

Would natural selection, and other evolutionary mechanisms for that matter, perform in the same fashion on other planets, if life existed on one?

Dr.GH · 08-23-2002, 07:27 PM

Hi,

I have been to Bakersfield many times; I feel your pain

One of the basic requirements of scientific theory is that of 'universality.' This means that their principles should work under any circumstance in this Universe.

The short answer to your question is: Yep.

lcb · 08-23-2002, 07:29 PM

as long as same atoms/elements there, it would have to, it would seem that by now we would have been contacted by intelligent beings from out there by now though.

Abacus · 08-23-2002, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
<strong>as long as same atoms/elements there, it would have to, it would seem that by now we would have been contacted by intelligent beings from out there by now though.</strong>

Unless they don't know we are here. It's a big universe, you know.

Kevin Dorner · 08-23-2002, 07:48 PM

I would say "Yes" with a couple of caveats...

First, there aren't a lot of planets as ideal as this <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0387987010/internetinfidelsA/" target="_blank">Rare Earth</a>. Life might get started but would be stuck at the bacterial stage. Even in such conditions as we have here, it took something like two billion years for the first eukaryotes to develop from prokaryotic bacteria... two billion years for mitochondria, chloroplasts, chromosomes and a nucleus. Then life was free to go multicellular. On other, less ideal, worlds this might never happen.

Second, it's possible that an alien genetic system might evolve to be perfect (or very close) in its error correction, fixing mutations as they occur in cell division and through chemical or mechanical means in a non-replicating cell, including waiting reproductive cells. Life would then stagnate as the existing alleles distributed themselves evenly, or at least evolution would proceed extremely slowly through some other means. Either way, not much of a future. A few mistakes here and there are very important.

[ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin Dorner ]</p>

DireStraits · 08-23-2002, 08:16 PM

as long as same atoms/elements there, it would have to, it would seem that by now we would have been contacted by intelligent beings from out there by now though.

DS: Why? What makes you think that enough time has passed?

What makes you think that they would even want to contact us?

Marduk · 08-24-2002, 06:30 AM

"as long as same atoms/elements there, it would have to, it would seem that by now we would have been contacted by intelligent beings from out there by now though."

I don't think so. We have only had the ability to receive signals from space for a few decades. They may have given up, not sent one yet or the signal is still on the way. Of course many claim we have already been contacted, crop circles you know

There are too many variables, type of signal, strength, form of communication, they may have sophisticated enough telescope arrays to already know we are here, they may think we are dangerous barbarians and don't want anything to do with us. The possibilities are endless.

Duvenoy · 08-24-2002, 07:13 AM

As far as the Theory of Evolution goes, I would think; yes, certainly. As far as 'intelligent' life forms go, I'd say; well, maybe.

As evolution has no set goal, it is concievable that Star Trek is dead wrong and sapient beings are very few and far between. Indeed, it has yet to be shown that sapience has any, real, evolutionary staying power, as compared to say, crocodilians, on our own planet.

On the other hand, as evolution has no set goal, an 'intelligence' might be something we'd not recognize.

Interesting speculations, but now I must be off. Tonight's my turn to do the crop circles.

doov

08-23-2002, 07:18 PM	#1
Secular Elation Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: California Posts: 6,196	Evolution on other planets? Would natural selection, and other evolutionary mechanisms for that matter, perform in the same fashion on other planets, if life existed on one?

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08-23-2002, 07:27 PM	#2
Dr.GH Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Point, Ca, USA Posts: 2,115	Hi, I have been to Bakersfield many times; I feel your pain One of the basic requirements of scientific theory is that of 'universality.' This means that their principles should work under any circumstance in this Universe. The short answer to your question is: Yep.

08-23-2002, 07:29 PM	#3
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	as long as same atoms/elements there, it would have to, it would seem that by now we would have been contacted by intelligent beings from out there by now though.

08-23-2002, 07:48 PM	#5
Kevin Dorner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 762	I would say "Yes" with a couple of caveats... First, there aren't a lot of planets as ideal as this <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0387987010/internetinfidelsA/" target="_blank">Rare Earth</a>. Life might get started but would be stuck at the bacterial stage. Even in such conditions as we have here, it took something like two billion years for the first eukaryotes to develop from prokaryotic bacteria... two billion years for mitochondria, chloroplasts, chromosomes and a nucleus. Then life was free to go multicellular. On other, less ideal, worlds this might never happen. Second, it's possible that an alien genetic system might evolve to be perfect (or very close) in its error correction, fixing mutations as they occur in cell division and through chemical or mechanical means in a non-replicating cell, including waiting reproductive cells. Life would then stagnate as the existing alleles distributed themselves evenly, or at least evolution would proceed extremely slowly through some other means. Either way, not much of a future. A few mistakes here and there are very important. [ August 23, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin Dorner ]</p>

08-23-2002, 08:16 PM	#6
DireStraits Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 81	as long as same atoms/elements there, it would have to, it would seem that by now we would have been contacted by intelligent beings from out there by now though. DS: Why? What makes you think that enough time has passed? What makes you think that they would even want to contact us?

08-24-2002, 06:30 AM	#7
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	"as long as same atoms/elements there, it would have to, it would seem that by now we would have been contacted by intelligent beings from out there by now though." I don't think so. We have only had the ability to receive signals from space for a few decades. They may have given up, not sent one yet or the signal is still on the way. Of course many claim we have already been contacted, crop circles you know There are too many variables, type of signal, strength, form of communication, they may have sophisticated enough telescope arrays to already know we are here, they may think we are dangerous barbarians and don't want anything to do with us. The possibilities are endless.

08-24-2002, 07:13 AM	#8
Duvenoy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Just another hick from the sticks. Posts: 1,108	As far as the Theory of Evolution goes, I would think; yes, certainly. As far as 'intelligent' life forms go, I'd say; well, maybe. As evolution has no set goal, it is concievable that Star Trek is dead wrong and sapient beings are very few and far between. Indeed, it has yet to be shown that sapience has any, real, evolutionary staying power, as compared to say, crocodilians, on our own planet. On the other hand, as evolution has no set goal, an 'intelligence' might be something we'd not recognize. Interesting speculations, but now I must be off. Tonight's my turn to do the crop circles. doov

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