Never

Actually, I would agree 100% if it was used to pay an already existing bill. However, if it were needed to get an initial consult with a lawyer for Darren, it may be of some value.

wildernesse

She is still responsible for her actions--no matter what you do, she doesn't have to react like that. I would be wary of saying that you made her do anything so mean as hurting your prized possessions. Don't give her an excuse like this to continue acting like a child. My two cents.

I hope that your meeting with the pastor encourages your wife to seek professional help. I hope that your home life become more tranquil and happy--especially because you have children.

--tibac

seebs

Or, say, an initial visit or two to a plain old marriage counselor. I know many of them have sliding scales, but...

Ted Hoffman

Vicar,
Now the problem is even more serious, I believe.

brighid

Vicar,

Oh goodness. I am astonished that she would take your guitar out and attempt to burn it, after or before breaking all the strings. This takes some pretty serious loss of rational thinking abilities, as well as a degree of anger that is pretty damned serious. I have been through some shit WAY more intense then anything that is going on in your present relationship and never, EVER did I attempt to destroy anything or physically harm my son’s father. Oh … and believe me there were offers, but even that evil prick would not get me to do something completely out of character.

As a woman, if my husband took out one of my most prized possessions and ceremonially burned or attempted to burn it in a symbolic gesture of harming me … well, I would be doing more then seriously considering getting the hell out. The message this sends to your children is a terrible and terrifying one, even if they don’t recognize or acknowledge it as such. That gesture is incredibly cruel and I honestly cannot think of anything, even infidelity that would bring to the point that I would do something like that and SURELY nothing you have done is worthy of this torturous, symbolic expression of the depths of her anger and just how far she might go if things got more out of hand. She has already demonstrated her ability to fly off the handle and this is NOT good, no matter how much you love her. She is sending you some VERY clear signals, even if she has now apologized sincerely. And Darren, that signal she is sending is something you SHOULD NOT, under any circumstances down play. I grew up in a pretty emotionally, verbally and physically abusive household and I have seen a lot more pain and destruction then I ever really care to recall. She is not only abusing you, but she is abusing your children by treating you this way. Her behavior is completely unacceptable, even if she apologizes and just because you “pushed” her … well that doesn’t absolve her of her personal responsibility for these very manipulative, destructive and abusive actions.

I realize that you want to save your marriage and you should do everything in your power to do so, but as I have said before and others have also recommended you need to consult an attorney NOW, not later, not a few months down the road but get thee to an attorney without hesitation. This does not mean you WANT or will get a divorce, but it does mean that you will be educated so you can best protect yourself and YOUR children.

Outside of this forum you need to begin to keep a detailed, personal journal of her actions and your actions. IF (and hopefully it doesn’t) go to divorce court this will be INCREDIBLY important in your defense. It will be the only way you will be able to keep things straight and although you think something remains vivid clear in your mind you will be amazed at how time changes that memory.

Get counseling for yourself and your children. She cannot stop you. It IS the responsible thing to do and it will also be seen as a responsible gesture by any court. You cannot force her to go to marriage counseling, or the get help for her VERY serious personal issues, but she cannot stop your from healing yourself and protecting your children. Well … she can, but that would actually require some brute force or kidnapping. Be prepared for those also. Those actions are not outside of the realm of possibility. I don’t mean to be an alarmist, but all too often these sorts of situations have a way of turning uglier then you ever thought possible, or ever thought your loved one was capable of. Be prepared!

See the pastor. Agree to go to Church if she will agree to go to marriage counseling, but do not be manipulated by her temper tantrums. Temper tantrums are control mechanisms, very manipulative control mechanisms used by a very insecure person. This doesn’t mean she is a “bad” person, but she needs help.

Your home should be a sanctuary, not an emotionally draining battle of wills or playground for the manipulative. It should be the one place you can retreat to for peace, love and respect because, as you know … the outside world can be unkind. You need to find a place that can be your sanctuary during these tumultuous times. It will help keep you sane, centered and rational when she is doing everything in her power to suck you into her misery. Unfortunately, and as justified as you are, whenever you allow yourself to be consumed by her anger and thereby lash out in any way she has gained a little bit more control over you. You have to resist it. You have to walk away and you have to remain steadfast to your character. Be the good man, be the good husband and father and be better then she is. It’s difficult, but it will be a lot less emotionally and physically draining to deflect her anger and defuse it. Emotional manipulators know what they are doing, even if they may not be able to consciously admit it. Their techniques work and that is why they continue to do it. Sometimes they continue even when it doesn’t work because that is all they know.

Set CLEAR boundaries and do not waiver when she seeks to cross them. You will not talk about religion with her until she can get to an emotional place where she can understand you aren’t attacking HER personally. You will not argue with her about this and every time she baits you, you have to walk away. That might even mean taking a ride to the grocery store, or to a nearby park, or asking the children if they would like to go for icecream. Tell her you are sorry she feels the way she does, but she is mistaken and when she is ready to have a reasonable conversation you would more then happy to do so. She will try to steer the conversation down THAT road, but every single time you have to disallow her crossing that boundary.

Brighid

lunachick

Damn straight, Brighid. I agree with you 100%.

Vicar Philip

Brighid,

Thank you for your very thoughtful, concerned post.

I'm afraid I've given everyone the impression that this sort of fight, this sort of extreme psychological warfare is commonplace in the Vicar household. In truth it is not. The only other time she flew off the handle like this and inflicted physical damage was when she was VERY pregnant with our fourth child, and we were in a huge fight about something a lot less important than this. She threw a rock at my car and broke the windshield. This was about 4 years ago, partly triggered by accidentally seeing her estranged biological mother at a McDonald's.

My wife had a very abusive, physically harmful childhood also. The mind games and beatings she took were awful, leaving her with an incredibly low self-esteem. She reconciled with her father some years ago, despite having been hit in the face and beaten by him several times. However she cannot bring herself to forgive her mother, having become a mother herself and knowing the intense love she feels for all our kids. She can't fathom how a mother could reject her children as her own mother did, and so will not forgive her. I have brought this up, regretfully, in some of our religious battles, since forgiveness is a major provision to be a True Christian™. I probably shouldn't have used this very painful reminder of her tortured upbringing in our fight. I won't again.

My wife took the entire weekend off from Wal-Mart for some much needed mind-clearing time. Yesterday was a real breakthrough for us. We talked for over an hour last night about everything, and she mentioned that change is very difficult for her to accept. When our previous pastor left the church, she refused to go back for a couple of months, hating the change. Eventually she got over it, and that is what she said happened with my change in belief. She fought it with everything she had, realized I was dead serious, and has accepted it. We even discussed her belief in god calmly and rationally last night, and she acknowledged that she shares a lot of the same questions I have about Christianity.

I looked up our local Unitarian Universalist church on the 'net, and mentioned it to my wife. She is willing to try it. If we find we like it, I am very excited that this is a compromise we could both make, and both gain so much. I was very impressed with the goals and beliefs of the "church." I also very much like the way they handle children, giving them a well-rounded education on ALL religions, not only one. She agreed to go, but doesn't want to involve the children until she gets a feel for it and feels comfortable taking our kids there. Again, it's all part of how she accomodates change, and I am going to respect that.

I can't tell you how relieved our two boys were when we told them Mommy and Daddy were NOT getting a divorce. They had been very, very quiet recently and bickering much more than usual. I really do think the worst has passed.

HelenM

Thanks so much for that update, Darren. I can't tell you how glad I am to hear that!

Helen

BadBadBad

Vicar,

I understand about how this kind of thing looks through the window of the few posts in writing. It tends to exaggerate things. Still though, visciously destroying prize possessions and responding, "I pushed her to do it," I think we all feel there's something there you should both give some serious thought to.

BC

captainpabst

That's absolutely great news!

The Unitarian 'church' is nifty. Hopefully it will satisfy her need for a supportive community. And really, if it's anything like the one near me, they're all about music - you may be strummin' for je...uh...go...er...eternal hope, human unity, or some other vague concept like that once again!

I think it becomes a little more understandable in light of the things VP's wife endured in her younger years. Not that it validates the behavior, but it may be something she has much less control over than the average person, and something that she can (and should) work on in the future. If this kind of thing happened routinely, that would be cause for alarm. This seemed like kind of an isolated incident though. (I hope)