Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The Other Michael · 12-12-2002, 05:02 AM

Bush just signed some executive orders expanding the activities of this office.

This morning NPR had an interview with the new head of the office, a fellow who was, they said, Mother Teresa's lawyer for 12 years.

I found his comments about "government can't love, so we're trying to help organizations whose mission is love" (that's my paraphrasing) interesting.

I wasn't able to find a link to the feature on the npr.org website - it may not be up yet since it was from the current broadcast of "Morning Edition".

cheers,
Michael

simian · 12-12-2002, 05:11 AM

AAAAARRRRRRGGGG!!!!

I was just getting ready to post this. Can anybody find the executive order on this crap?

US AID is one of the programs mentioned that will become a "faith-based" branch. I just participated (1/2 of October) in a US AID project in Russia. I liked it, I think I did a good job. In the future I may not be a cantidate as a volunteer, due to the fact I don't believe in their magic sky daddy, and certainly will not preach for them. US AID volunteers have thier direct travel expenses paid for. That it. No salary, any extra days in cities (for tourism) you pay for yourself.

What would this mean to me? I may lose yet another way to give back to the world. My knowledge, experience, and willingness to put up with conditions less than the US standard will mean NOTHING. I can be beat out because "Catholics, Jews, and Atheists need not apply."

What could it mean to the "faith-based" groups? They no longer need to pay for the travel of their preachers. So long as they are willing to put in the appearance of helping foreign countries, it is paid for. Everything except for the preaching materials could be paid for. "level the playing field" my foot..

Simian

The Other Michael · 12-12-2002, 05:15 AM

Hey Simian,

Ooook.

Here's a link to a current CNN article for you. And here is the White House page for the Office.

cheers,
Michael

simian · 12-12-2002, 05:27 AM

Thanks for the links. Following links in them, I also found the list of executive orders. Looks like this one has not been formally given yet. I want to see the wording.

I plan to write my senators and congressman. I may copy the ACLU and AU. Any other suggestions?

Simian

Butters · 12-12-2002, 05:37 AM

O.K. I think it is time for atheists to give in to what Christians have been saying and declare that Atheism is a religion. We have "faith" that there is no God, therefore we have all the rights that any other religion has.

I can't get over the thinking here. Religious charities cannot stop poverty. Government agencies cannot stop poverty. So government AND religion working together CAN. WTF?

galiel · 12-12-2002, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Butters:
O.K. I think it is time for atheists to give in to what Christians have been saying and declare that Atheism is a religion. We have "faith" that there is no God, therefore we have all the rights that any other religion has.

This is precisely the position Michael Newdow has been arguing for. While I initially resisted it on philosophical grounds, I now support it on pragmatic grounds--that is, for the purpose of qualifying, according to IRS definitions for tax-exemptions, as well as other government benefits such as the faith-based initiatives and a significant immunity from government oversight AND, finally but most importantly, civil rights legal protections, Atheism (or, more practically, "Secular Humanism" or "Metaphysical Naturalism" or whatever affirmative term is most inclusive and useful) is a religion. It is what I believe, and I should be entitled to the same protections and benefits that others recieve merely by virtue of their beliefs.

IRS "religion" status (such as the American Humanist Association has been granted), would provide immediate tangible protections and advantages to our community, literally overnight, and would also help us gain respect as a legitimate (if still feared and hated by theists) philosophy and lifestyle.

Toto · 12-12-2002, 07:23 AM

another thread on this

Toto · 12-12-2002, 01:29 PM

Whitehouse news release:

Quote:

In keeping with the long-established right (set out in the Civil Rights Act of 1964) of religious organizations to maintain their religious identity and independence, the Order also amends a previous Executive Order to ensure that religious organizations receiving Federal contracts are able to take their faith into account in making employment decisions.

So the FaithBased org can fire a lesbian art teacher, a counselor who is living in sin with her boyfriend, a janitor who is gay, if that violates their religious scruples.

Toto · 12-12-2002, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by galiel:


. . .

IRS "religion" status (such as the American Humanist Association has been granted), would provide immediate tangible protections and advantages to our community, literally overnight, and would also help us gain respect as a legitimate (if still feared and hated by theists) philosophy and lifestyle.

I believe that the AHA no longer claims a religious status. The only benefit to having that status under IRS regs is some extra tax breaks (the "housing allowance") for the minister.

simian · 12-12-2002, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto:
<a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021212.html" target="_blank">Whitehouse news release</a>:

So the FaithBased org can fire a lesbian art teacher, a counselor who is living in sin with her boyfriend, a janitor who is gay, if that violates their religious scruples.

Or, presumably, in interracial couple, if that violates their scruples.... I think we are about to see some real Christian love and compassion.

Simian

12-12-2002, 05:02 AM	#1
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	More Office of Faith Based Initiatives stuff Bush just signed some executive orders expanding the activities of this office. This morning NPR had an interview with the new head of the office, a fellow who was, they said, Mother Teresa's lawyer for 12 years. I found his comments about "government can't love, so we're trying to help organizations whose mission is love" (that's my paraphrasing) interesting. I wasn't able to find a link to the feature on the npr.org website - it may not be up yet since it was from the current broadcast of "Morning Edition". cheers, Michael

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12-12-2002, 05:11 AM	#2
simian Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 1,924	AAAAARRRRRRGGGG!!!! I was just getting ready to post this. Can anybody find the executive order on this crap? US AID is one of the programs mentioned that will become a "faith-based" branch. I just participated (1/2 of October) in a US AID project in Russia. I liked it, I think I did a good job. In the future I may not be a cantidate as a volunteer, due to the fact I don't believe in their magic sky daddy, and certainly will not preach for them. US AID volunteers have thier direct travel expenses paid for. That it. No salary, any extra days in cities (for tourism) you pay for yourself. What would this mean to me? I may lose yet another way to give back to the world. My knowledge, experience, and willingness to put up with conditions less than the US standard will mean NOTHING. I can be beat out because "Catholics, Jews, and Atheists need not apply." What could it mean to the "faith-based" groups? They no longer need to pay for the travel of their preachers. So long as they are willing to put in the appearance of helping foreign countries, it is paid for. Everything except for the preaching materials could be paid for. "level the playing field" my foot.. Simian

12-12-2002, 05:15 AM	#3
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	Hey Simian, Ooook. Here's a link to a current CNN article for you. And here is the White House page for the Office. cheers, Michael

12-12-2002, 05:27 AM	#4
simian Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 1,924	Thanks for the links. Following links in them, I also found the list of executive orders. Looks like this one has not been formally given yet. I want to see the wording. I plan to write my senators and congressman. I may copy the ACLU and AU. Any other suggestions? Simian

12-12-2002, 05:37 AM	#5
Butters Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 444	O.K. I think it is time for atheists to give in to what Christians have been saying and declare that Atheism is a religion. We have "faith" that there is no God, therefore we have all the rights that any other religion has. I can't get over the thinking here. Religious charities cannot stop poverty. Government agencies cannot stop poverty. So government AND religion working together CAN. WTF?

12-12-2002, 07:23 AM	#7
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	another thread on this

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