Darth Dane

Ask and you shall be given

capsaicin67

As others have covered:

The simple observation that "right and wrong" varies from culture to culture and generation to generation, coupled with the additional observation that there are numerous human beings that lack a conscience by their account and actions. That should put that whole notion on it's head.

I think that many animals are programmed for and adopt and enforce behaviors that are interesting and similar [and vice versa] to some human conventions and behaviors. But I'm careful to not idealize it, and recognize that animals are equally susceptible to any number of behaviors that I don't find "noble" [which tells me something about how well nature supports "nobility" as a useful construct?], just as humans are.

Chimps used to be considered the "noble savages" of the primate world, and are often cited as being simpler and yet somehow "nobler" than their human cousins. While this would be hopeful for those that want some sort of example of what humans "should" be capable of or strive for, and convenient and inspiring, unless the science has changed recently I don't think it's accurate. Chimps certainly have many attributes which are cooperative, emotional etc, they have also been recorded going on intergroup warparties, engaging in infanticide, and eating meat----namely, other primates that they enthusiastically hunt, corner, and brutally kill and rip asunder for their dining pleasure. Wolves also are more like humans and vice versa than is terribly inspiring to observe. Very political, petty and with variation in personality. Pack politics is brutal and it is not uncommon for a member to get brutally harassed and demoted and have the physical harassment result in injury or death. Just wanted to throw that out regarding 2 oft-idealized creatures.....

Nature is amoral and persistent, not that social structures, boundaries, conventions can't add quality to human life or whatever. But utopia and moral absolutes or notions of universal "goodness" or "badness" don't seem to be part of Her plan! Which is very inconvenient for those of us that wish it were [like me].

capsaicin67

A brief post script to my prior post-----I agree that if you ever answer an ad in the paper for "Chimp Seeks Roommate", find out if it's a Bonobo!

Bonobos are horny and believe in making a lot more love than war if that description holds up still, too! Lots of sex as currency sorta stuff going on, freelove, bonding etc. In short, that subgroup *does* know how to party and get down, if you know what I mean! So that seems like an interesting commentary on the potential for primate---and human in particular----social behavior and conventions. But the other chimps are more like most humans I know, and the observation that chimps or higher primates cannot be idealized universally, stands, I think?

Aravnah Ornan

If G-d wrote a moral law in our consciences, why did He also have to give us all of the thou-shalt-nots in the Bible? Also, why don't the two line up? For instance, on slavery, what the Bible says and what most modern Christians "know" to be the immutable moral law are completely different. If G-d had really done all of these things, then G-d would indeed be the author of confusion.

It sounds as though, yet again, Christians want it both ways. Insofar as our moral sense agrees with this week's eternal verities of Christian teaching, it must be G-d who gave us our moral sense. Praise! Yet insofar as our moral sense doesn't agree with Christian teaching, G-d's ways are not our ways, nor are G-d's thoughts our thoughts. Praise!

King Rat

Agreed. This brings us back to what I call the "god filter." If you view everything through your "god filter" everything you view will be touched by god.

Biff the unclean

You might want to ask your Bible teacher just where in the Bible God does this.
'Cause I'm looking at it here and I see God forbidding the knowledge of good and evil and if you can't tell good from evil then you don't have a conscience.

Nope, according to Genesis it was Snake that gave us a conscience and not God.

Valdemar

I spent about two hours writing a response, and realized that I was doing exactly what I had promised not to do: make my answer to you boring.

Biff sums it up much better than I did, so I'll take the easy way out and say stick with that.

lpetrich

There is evidence of a link between "antisocial personality disorder" and deficiencies in the prefrontal cortex, such as is described in this article

Some commonly-used diagnostic criteria are:

* Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.

* Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure.

* Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.

* Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults.

* Reckless disregard for safety of self or others.

* Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations.

* Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.

However, those suffering from APD can often be charming, which can help them escape from various troublesome consequences.

This pattern of behavior is common in little children, but most children outgrow it. APD sufferers don't.

Starboy

Tell your teacher that Prometheus must exist because we have fire.

Starboy

Godless Dave

I'd say there has to be a god named Eros because we all feel lust. What a stupid argument.