Arken

In this thread I quoted a piece from Livy's History of Rome volume I which was written around the beginning of the first century CE. In it, Livy expresses skepticism over the mystical Romulus and Remus tale of the founding of Rome and gives a more rational explanation of what might have happened.

Now granted, Livy was still a believer in the Roman pantheon to an extent, but he obviously expressed skepticism when it came to such a prominent myth of the supernatural in his day which would, IMO, make him a skeptic. I got to wondering if there were any other early skeptics which led me to Anaxagoras and Diagoras of Milos both around the 5th century BCE, both of whom were noted skeptics of their religion (Diagoras actually threw an idol into a fire and said that if there were a god, it would save the idol), but were they truly skeptics or did they believe in the supernatural but not deities?

Who exactly was the first recorded skeptic?

Wounded King

He's a bit later than your 5th century BCE examples but Pyrrho founded the philosophical school of skepticism in Greece. The actual principles of this school of skepticism don't sound quite like the modern skeptical attitude to me however.

JGL53

If you google 'Indian philosophy+atheism+ancient" , you get over 5,000 hits. I checked some of the first links listed, and it seems there are records of skeptic thought dating as far back as three thousand years.

Arken

But atheism is not necessarily skepticism. You can not believe in Gods and still believe in magic and the supernatural.

abe smith

The earliest skeptics"s identities will probably be forever unknown, because they would have been killed & offered as sacrifices to the gods by the believers whose beliefs the skeptics called in question. Doancha know....

ps418

I can see it now. The scene is the rim of a volcano, 6000BCE. The whole tribe is assembled for a sacrifice:

Proto-skeptic: "I'm tellin' you guys, thowing that goat in the volcano won't do squat for our crops! Let's eat the goat instead."

Priest-chief: "Its crazy talk like that that's killing our crops! You've made the gods angry, so now we throw you in the volcano!"


Patrick

Wounded King

You may mock volcano sacrifices but have you tried it? Until you have carried out a properly controlled double blind study I think you should reserve judgement.

Infidelettante

quote:

Originally posted by abe smith
The earliest skeptics"s identities will probably be forever unknown, because they would have been killed & offered as sacrifices to the gods by the believers whose beliefs the skeptics called in question. Doancha know....



I can see it now. The scene is the rim of a volcano, 6000BCE. The whole tribe is assembled for a sacrifice:

Proto-skeptic: "I'm tellin' you guys, thowing that goat in the volcano won't do squat for our crops! Let's eat the goat instead."

Priest-chief: "Its crazy talk like that that's killing our crops! You've made the gods angry, so now we throw you in the volcano!"

Priest MBA: “Wait! Why not cut the goats neck, pour the blood in the volcano and keep the meat for ourselves? Oh, and throw him in the volcano.”

Priest VP Marketing: ”If we can get fifty goats a year out of these rubes we could sell the blood to the other islands, eat great all year and make a lot of muulaa”

Priest CEO:Ok, so I got the four room hut on the beach, the five hula girls and the stretch canoe. I get a new Maliemalie every year and a vacation house on the Big Island. Are you going to throw him in the volcano or do I have to do it? Retirement with a golden luukinooky and life time membership in the Surf Club. What a deal ”

PETA-Priest:”Now wait just one second here! You can’t just go around cutting the necks of goats like that. We protest! We protest! Save the goats! Save the goats!”

Anal-Priest:” And what a mess. Here, let me clean up a bit. You have blood everywhere. I swear you won’t have enough to pour in the volcano if you keep this up. You, yes you! Hold this bag for me. Well you may as well be useful until they throw you in. Don’t yell at me or I’ll throw you in. Now hold it up some…what is wrong with you? Well, think of it as your civic duty. Now you don’t want to slip on all this blood and break your neck do you? Hold that up some more, that’s good. And stop crying!”

Fundie-Priest:”You can not do this this way. The Word of Molak says ‘the goat which is a really nice goat of one color and not too tall born of a she goat and a he goat not from a she goat and a she goat or from a he goat and a he goat because that is an nasty thing according to Molak and the goat shall be tied at the neck and dragged to the top of the volcano and thrown in.’ The Word of Molak does not say you can cut the neck of the goat and only pour the blood into the volcano. You can only throw the whole goat in.”

Septic-Priest:”Can you give me any evidence that Molak exists? No, it’s just that all this makes no sense anymore. Bloody goats and volcanoes …the volcano is going to get us and there is nothing Molak can do about it. I mean, has he ever? Is Molak the volcano or not? If Molak is other than the volcano does he control the volcano? And, if Molak is not other than the volcano does he care who we throw in the volcano? If Molak cares how could he allow volcanoes that people have to be thrown into?”

X-molakian:: “I find it hard to imagine that I gave so much of my life to Molak. But what can you do when you’re on a really small island and Molak is all you know? My Molakian friends say I’m going to burn in the volcano forever but I say if I can think for myself and choose the life I want to live I’ll make the bet.”


Patrick

Thank you Patrick for letting me highjack your post.
JT

Jeremy Pallant

[Moderator]

Uh, people? Very amusing, actually, but if this thread continues in this vein, I shall have to send it to Humor.

[/Morderator]

Vorkosigan

Wang Chung, the greatest of the ancient skeptics. 1st century AD. He believed in the cosmic chi and maybe ghosts as well, but for the most part he was a determined enemy of superstition. His dissection of a flood that killed thousands "Did they all have a bad day in their horoscopes" reads just as well today as it did 2000 years ago, and looks a lot like Voltaire's writing on the famous Lisbon Earthquake.

Vorkosigan