Freethought & Rationalism Archive

NeoDeltaI · 09-17-2002, 01:59 PM

Well, I'd be lying if I said that every person in the world looked "good" or "beautiful" naked, but that's beside the point. My opinion of something doesn't make it wrong or right.

I agree with a few sentiments here. First, for hygienical reasons, I think clothing around the genitals and rectum is quite necessary (although I'm reminded of a PBS show that explained a study that showed children who grew up on a farm working with animals were usually more resistant to certain forms of bacteria, and who's more naked than farm animals?).

Second, it has always confused me why when a woman produces a bare breast for a baby it's culturally acceptable, but for any other reason its vulgar... Then again, I'm amazed that someone can find people of the same sex kissing in public "sick", while the same person finds a heterosexual couple sucking face in the open to be "cute". Maybe I�m crazy, but I�ve yet to hear of anything unusually unsanitary about mixing the saliva of two people of shared gender� But I digress from the thread topic.

So I guess my view is that nudity from the waist up is fine in public, but around the naughty parts should remain unlawful, only for the interest of health.

On a side note, I also agree that a dressed woman can be as/more sexual than a naked woman. I'll take a Victoria's Secret over a Penthouse any day, but we shouldn't make laws about opinions.

DarkDruid · 09-17-2002, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith Russell:
As for being 'evolved', you are partly correct. There are parts of any major city where women (even fully clothed) dare not venture alone. I'm not saying this is right (it isn't), just that it is the reality of the situation.

While people ought to be able to control themselves regardless, it's only too true that many of them cannot (or will not).

I certainly hope you arn't making the mistake of assuming that rape is caused by horny men.

MzNeko · 09-17-2002, 02:47 PM

What's wrong with nudity?

Well, I do hate sticking to vinyl chair cushions...

godlessmath · 09-17-2002, 03:17 PM

Oh there's nothing wrong with my nudity.

Yours on the other hand...I think some sit-ups wouldn't do harm.

99Percent · 09-17-2002, 03:31 PM

Moderator notice:

Lets try to keep this topic serious. I don't want it to degenerate it to the degree that it has to be closed or moved to another forum.

Thanks.

Infinity Lover · 09-17-2002, 03:53 PM

C'mon ninetynine! What's wrong with a little mental nudity?

People just blurting out, what comes to mind? Isn't sophistication sometimes just the clothes we put on our thoughts?

I'm typing this butnaked by the way.

Marcel.

Jane Bovary · 09-17-2002, 04:08 PM

Well 99, that's another thing about nudity...it's so often laughable. What's wrong with a little humour amid the serious discussion? Sheesh...

I'm not so concerned with nudity being a criminal offence...I think we have eased up alot in our attitudes to "public decency". Topless bathing is common here and no-one bats an eyelid. We have nude beaches for those who want to go all the way and most people feel amusement rather than outrage at streakers. Standards of dress have become pretty free and easy.

Having said that, we still seem to have a problem with breastfeeding mothers in public, which is just ABSURD. A couple of years ago a judge asked a woman who was discreetly feeding her baby in the public gallery to leave the courtroom, because he found it "offensive". And in restuarants people still complain about the sight of lactating mothers spoiling their meal.

What could possibly be offensive about breastfeeding?

99Percent · 09-17-2002, 06:29 PM

There is nothing wrong with a little humour, I just don't want this to degenerate and lose what I find is an important and interesting topic.

I agree with you Jane, I personally find nothing offensive with breastfeeding. However I think it is an intimate act between mother and baby and it should be done discreetly. I have seen some women here in Mexico who breast feed without any regard for other's discomfort in very public places, almost like showing off, which I think is unnecesarry and maybe even unhygienic. Whats wrong with using a shawl to discretely cover up the breast feeding act?

As to public nudity, what I don't understand is why there has to be laws against it. I think social conventions and peer pressure are more than enough to control unwanted public displays of nudity, in the corresponding places (such as beaches or big metropolitan areas). Nobody is being forced to see a naked person if they don't want to. Private establishments such a restaurant, say a McDonalds can put their own rules for nudity. In fact, many do, with their no shoes, no shirt no service policy.

Some people claim that nudity is harmful for children and that is why it should be abolished. Nothing can be further from the truth IMO. Nudity is our natural state, how can it be harmful? I would find censorship to be much more harmful.

One of the last sane · 09-17-2002, 06:48 PM

When a woman is breastfeeding, the kid's head obscures most the breast anyway (yeah I admit I've looked - but it was my wife, okay!?). When she's obviously plugging in or unplugging, people who are offended can just look away for the brief time it takes. It's less offensive and less distressing than listening to a hungry baby cry.

MilitantModerate · 09-17-2002, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 99Percent:
I personally find nothing offensive with breastfeeding. However I think it is an intimate act between mother and baby and it should be done discreetly.

Isn't this a bit of a contradiction? If something is inoffensive why do you have to be discreet?

Quote:

I have seen some women here in Mexico who breast feed without any regard for other's discomfort in very public places, almost like showing off, which I think is unnecesarry and maybe even unhygienic. Whats wrong with using a shawl to discretely cover up the breast feeding act?

You must me kidding!? How is other's 'discomfort' the mother's (or hungry baby's) problem? Showing off!!?? Unhygienic!!!??? I am really at a loss for words. What's wrong with realizing that this is a completely common, natural, and necessary event that most of us did for the first 4-24 months of our lives. Only a fool and complete prude could object in any way, shape, or form. Period.

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09-17-2002, 01:59 PM	#31
NeoDeltaI Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: MA, USA Posts: 189	Well, I'd be lying if I said that every person in the world looked "good" or "beautiful" naked, but that's beside the point. My opinion of something doesn't make it wrong or right. I agree with a few sentiments here. First, for hygienical reasons, I think clothing around the genitals and rectum is quite necessary (although I'm reminded of a PBS show that explained a study that showed children who grew up on a farm working with animals were usually more resistant to certain forms of bacteria, and who's more naked than farm animals?). Second, it has always confused me why when a woman produces a bare breast for a baby it's culturally acceptable, but for any other reason its vulgar... Then again, I'm amazed that someone can find people of the same sex kissing in public "sick", while the same person finds a heterosexual couple sucking face in the open to be "cute". Maybe I�m crazy, but I�ve yet to hear of anything unusually unsanitary about mixing the saliva of two people of shared gender� But I digress from the thread topic. So I guess my view is that nudity from the waist up is fine in public, but around the naughty parts should remain unlawful, only for the interest of health. On a side note, I also agree that a dressed woman can be as/more sexual than a naked woman. I'll take a Victoria's Secret over a Penthouse any day, but we shouldn't make laws about opinions.

09-17-2002, 02:47 PM	#33
MzNeko Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Long Beach, California Posts: 1,127	What's wrong with nudity? Well, I do hate sticking to vinyl chair cushions...

09-17-2002, 03:17 PM	#34
godlessmath Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 906	Oh there's nothing wrong with my nudity. Yours on the other hand...I think some sit-ups wouldn't do harm.

09-17-2002, 03:31 PM	#35
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	Moderator notice: Lets try to keep this topic serious. I don't want it to degenerate it to the degree that it has to be closed or moved to another forum. Thanks.

09-17-2002, 03:53 PM	#36
Infinity Lover Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,047	C'mon ninetynine! What's wrong with a little mental nudity? People just blurting out, what comes to mind? Isn't sophistication sometimes just the clothes we put on our thoughts? I'm typing this butnaked by the way. Marcel.

09-17-2002, 04:08 PM	#37
Jane Bovary Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The Fatal Shore Posts: 900	Well 99, that's another thing about nudity...it's so often laughable. What's wrong with a little humour amid the serious discussion? Sheesh... I'm not so concerned with nudity being a criminal offence...I think we have eased up alot in our attitudes to "public decency". Topless bathing is common here and no-one bats an eyelid. We have nude beaches for those who want to go all the way and most people feel amusement rather than outrage at streakers. Standards of dress have become pretty free and easy. Having said that, we still seem to have a problem with breastfeeding mothers in public, which is just ABSURD. A couple of years ago a judge asked a woman who was discreetly feeding her baby in the public gallery to leave the courtroom, because he found it "offensive". And in restuarants people still complain about the sight of lactating mothers spoiling their meal. What could possibly be offensive about breastfeeding?

09-17-2002, 06:29 PM	#38
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	There is nothing wrong with a little humour, I just don't want this to degenerate and lose what I find is an important and interesting topic. I agree with you Jane, I personally find nothing offensive with breastfeeding. However I think it is an intimate act between mother and baby and it should be done discreetly. I have seen some women here in Mexico who breast feed without any regard for other's discomfort in very public places, almost like showing off, which I think is unnecesarry and maybe even unhygienic. Whats wrong with using a shawl to discretely cover up the breast feeding act? As to public nudity, what I don't understand is why there has to be laws against it. I think social conventions and peer pressure are more than enough to control unwanted public displays of nudity, in the corresponding places (such as beaches or big metropolitan areas). Nobody is being forced to see a naked person if they don't want to. Private establishments such a restaurant, say a McDonalds can put their own rules for nudity. In fact, many do, with their no shoes, no shirt no service policy. Some people claim that nudity is harmful for children and that is why it should be abolished. Nothing can be further from the truth IMO. Nudity is our natural state, how can it be harmful? I would find censorship to be much more harmful.

09-17-2002, 06:48 PM	#39
One of the last sane Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hereabouts Posts: 734	When a woman is breastfeeding, the kid's head obscures most the breast anyway (yeah I admit I've looked - but it was my wife, okay!?). When she's obviously plugging in or unplugging, people who are offended can just look away for the brief time it takes. It's less offensive and less distressing than listening to a hungry baby cry.

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