Freethought & Rationalism Archive

tgamble · 07-30-2002, 05:37 PM

<a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/07/30/news/opinion/courtwatch/main516892.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/07/30/news/opinion/courtwatch/main516892.shtml</a>

Both women were good mothers until the awful last moments of their children's' lives. Both women suffered from severe mental illness. Both women thought their children were possessed by the Devil. Both mothers became obsessed with religious symbols.

The Other Michael · 07-31-2002, 05:11 AM

Hi tgamble,

Since an atheist doesn't believe in the existence of "the devil", why would s/he believe the children were possessed by it?

cheers,
Michael

brighid · 07-31-2002, 05:19 AM

I am going to second Michael on this. Since atheists by definition lack a belief of Gods and their evil cohorts, demons or devils they would certainly NOT kill their child or any one else for the reason stated.

Brighid

excreationist · 07-31-2002, 05:33 AM

Luckily, a large number of Christians don't believe in the devil:

from <a href="http://www.barna.org/cgi-bin/PageCategory.asp#Satan" target="_blank">Barna Research Online</a>, an American Christian research group:

Quote:

- Nearly three out of five adults (58%) say that the devil, or Satan, is not a living being but is a symbol of evil. (2001)
- 45% of born again Christians deny Satan's existence. (2001)
- Nearly seven out of ten Catholics (68%) say the devil is non-existent, compared to 60% of Protestant mainline church attenders, 51% of Baptists and 50% of Protestant non-mainline church attenders who agree that Satan is only a symbol of evil. (2001)
- Men emerge as slightly more likely than woman to believe that Satan is just a symbol of evil (61% to 55%, respectively). (2001)
- Two-thirds of adults (69%) are aware that the Bible describes Satan, or the devil, as an angel who formerly served God in Heaven. (1994)

DRFseven · 07-31-2002, 06:04 AM

From ex's previous quote:

Quote:

Two-thirds of adults (69%) are aware that the Bible describes Satan, or the devil, as an angel who formerly served God in Heaven. (1994)

And he's always using that on his resume, like people are going to be really impressed that he was God's caddie. And then he says he chose to quit. Right, Satan; you meant to get thrown out. Very believable, Fork-Tongue.

joedad · 07-31-2002, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid:
<strong>Since atheists by definition lack a belief of Gods and their evil cohorts, demons or devils they would certainly NOT kill their child or any one else for the reason stated.</strong>

I guess if a person wanted to get absurdly logical, he might argue that God, as in the christian thing, is in fact atheistic, and that in the end it killed its son out of love for humans. That would be pretty strange, as well as pretty insulting. Maybe there's a discussion in there answering the question, "Isn't God really an atheist?"

Even if the majority of people do not believe in a Satan, that still leaves a whole lot of people out there who do. Scary.

And I do agree with Michael that an atheist could not be so motivated. But if those majority of christians believe that Satan is only symbolic of evil, and not real in itself, do not most of the respondents in such a poll still believe in the existence of evil? Is there really much of a separation between believing in Evil and believing in Satan?

I guess its a step in the right direction, but I'd feel more comfortable if most respondents mentioned by excreationist simply didn't believe in Evil.

joe

excreationist · 07-31-2002, 07:43 AM

DRFseven:
I don't think the devil ever claimed that he chose to be thrown out of Heaven... he was thrown out after a war in Heaven. (see Revelation 12:7-9) [I'm not sure if that is supposed to be in the past or future though]
He dared to disobey the supreme being though, so in a way he chose the consequences.

joedad:

Quote:

Is there really much of a separation between believing in Evil and believing in Satan?

I think they just believe in the concept of evil which is rebellion against God. And if a person is evil, the behaviour would be their own - there would be no demons in need of exorcizing that are causing it.

Jamie_L · 07-31-2002, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Other Michael:
Since an atheist doesn't believe in the existence of "the devil", why would s/he believe the children were possessed by it?

Or, to put it another way: someone who kills their children because they believe they are possessed by the devil, is by definition not an atheist.

Jamie

GeoTheo · 07-31-2002, 10:01 AM

At least not an "adevilist"

tgamble · 07-31-2002, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Other Michael:
<strong>Hi tgamble,

Since an atheist doesn't believe in the existence of "the devil", why would s/he believe the children were possessed by it?

cheers,
Michael</strong>

Obviously. The question was rhetorical really.

07-30-2002, 05:37 PM	#1
tgamble Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: St. John's, Nfld. Canada Posts: 1,652	Would atheists kill their children because he thought they were posessed by the devil <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/07/30/news/opinion/courtwatch/main516892.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/07/30/news/opinion/courtwatch/main516892.shtml</a> Both women were good mothers until the awful last moments of their children's' lives. Both women suffered from severe mental illness. Both women thought their children were possessed by the Devil. Both mothers became obsessed with religious symbols.

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07-31-2002, 05:11 AM	#2
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	Hi tgamble, Since an atheist doesn't believe in the existence of "the devil", why would s/he believe the children were possessed by it? cheers, Michael

07-31-2002, 05:19 AM	#3
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	I am going to second Michael on this. Since atheists by definition lack a belief of Gods and their evil cohorts, demons or devils they would certainly NOT kill their child or any one else for the reason stated. Brighid

07-31-2002, 10:01 AM	#9
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	At least not an "adevilist"

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