Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mageth · 08-15-2002, 12:14 PM

'purely random evolution'

Once again, evolution is not "purely random." Get that through your aura.

The aura is not visible in vacuum because it is composed of electrons.

Huh? Am I missing something here? Why do
<a href="http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast05mar98_3.htm" target="_blank">electron microscopes</a> use vacuums, then?

Photographing auras in a vacuum doesn't make sense, since you wouldn't see it - that's bacuase an aura is part of a living person and as such cannot be seen in a vacuum.

So you can't see things in a vacuum? What are all those things we see in the vacuum of space, such as the moon, then? What alternate universe do you come from?

Oolon Colluphid · 08-15-2002, 01:44 PM

Mods and Admins: please please PLEASE don't even consider banning Thia for any reason!!! I really honestly have never laughed so hard at anything posted here as this thread! For example:

Quote:

Originally posted by pz:

Humans (all organisms, actually) emit an "aura" of infrared radiation, water vapor, and small molecules. We can measure it, see it with instruments and our senses, and just generally have no trouble dealing with it in concept or practice. It is a natural property.

On the other hand, if you are talking about the magical "aura" of kirlian photography, ditzy psychics and mediums, and ghostbusters-style crackpottery, that's just a load of putrefying kielbasa. There's nothing to explain, other than the aberrant psychology of frauds and lunatics.

Not quite sure why I find myself nearly wetting myself, but the humour value of Thiaoouba is worth the price we pay in having a certifiable friutloop here!

PS pz: what the fuck's a kielbasa?

Cheers, Oolon

[ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: Oolon Colluphid ]

Writer@Large · 08-15-2002, 01:50 PM

So, I'm tooling around the Bioresonant site, because I'm waiting for dinner to cook and I'm bored, and I come across this choice quote from the article <a href="http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/health_/seeau.htm" target="_blank">How to see and READ the AURA </a>:

Quote:

It is ESPECIALLY important to check the aura of any religious leader, "spiritual teacher", "master" or a "guru". Such person should have a clearly defined yellow-golden halo around the head. If he/she does not have it, you are MUCH better on your own.

Joining a sect or a religion that is led by incompetent people without good Auras is very dangerous for your consciousness.

NOW we know what went wrong with the Catholic Church! None of those pedophile priests had the right AURA!

--W@L

Writer@Large · 08-15-2002, 01:54 PM

Actually, there's better news. We don't need Kirlian photography to see auras. According to Chalko, we can do it ourselves:

Quote:

To see the Aura we need to
>increase the sensitivity of our eyes AND
>extend the range of perceived vibration beyond the visible light.

We can accomplish the above by
>using and training our peripheral vision
>increasing exposure
>enhance visual sensation processing in the brain - enhance the communication between left and right hemispheres of the brain

... and ...

Quote:

Stand about 1.5 m in front of a good size mirror. In the beginning it is best if the background behind you is plain white and there are no shadows. Illumination should be VERY soft and uniform not bright. Follow instructions above for seeing Auras.

PRACTICE for at least 10-15 minutes each day to increase your sensitivity and develop Auric sight. Remember that practice is required to develop Auric sight.

Thiaoouba, I ask you a question in all seriousness: can you see auras? Have you trained your peripheral vision? If not, why not?

--W@L

[ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: Writer@Large ]

Copernic · 08-15-2002, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Synaesthesia:
The kirilian aura is a byproduct of the high votlages used in the process interacting with moisture.

In other words, it's an artifact of the method, not supernatural human powers.

Synaesthesia, are you really Synaesthetic? I ask this because a couple of years ago I spoke to a Neurobiologist out of NC State and I brought up the possibility to him that those who sincerely believe they see aura's may actually be "afflicted" by
<a href="http://www.macalester.edu/~psych/whathap/ubnrp/synesthesia/main.html" target="_blank">synaesthesia</a> (as recently talked about on <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/08/60II/main323596.shtml" target="_blank">60 Min II</a>). With the possibility that our natural ability to garner physical and emotional info about people as we observe them is somehow crosslinked w/ visual processing of the brain. So they see someone happy, they think "happy" and they see them with a warm pink aura because that's what they associate w/ happy thoughts.
Just a hypothesis and a possible explanation for reported aura sightings.

Quote:

Originally posted by Thiaoouba:
 how would evolutionists approach explaining the aura in terms of 'purely random evolution'?

Now, evolutionary pychologists may be able to explain why charlatans take advantage of stupid people by charging them for reading their "aura". But that may be another posting.

Edited for formatting
Edited for clarity

[ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: Copernic ]

echidna · 08-15-2002, 04:43 PM

Good morning thiaoouba, glorious winter�s day today isn�t it.

You�ll find a quite adequate explanation of auras here :

<a href="http://www.skepdic.com/auras.html" target="_blank">http://www.skepdic.com/auras.html</a>

When it comes to whether metaphysical naturalism is sufficient to explain our existence, there are actually serious and legitimate arguments which leave the issue undecided IMO.

However the New Age pseudoscience �evidence� which you propose is laughable. I�ve seen first-hand people get mislead by cults like yours, have their lives threatened by pseudo-healers claiming powers which they do not possess. People who are brainwashed into following self-proclaimed spiritual leaders only to find themselves in psychological collapse when reality dawns on them.

Yes, I fully acknowledge the value of spiritual (psychological) healing, but these supernatural powers claimed by such New Age cults are criminally irresponsible. When a drug company frauds laboratory results to sell more pills, I expect them charged with the full weight of the law. I expect no less from a �healer� claiming abilities which are clearly false.

Do you offer any apology for continually bombarding the board with this ridiculousness without following up or responding to any criticisms, EVER ???

Or will you respond in the previous thread ?

Doubting Didymus · 08-15-2002, 05:15 PM

Please, everyone. Stop talking about whether auras are real or not. Thaioouba has posited a hypothetical situation, in which auras are discovered to be real. This conversation should be about whether or not this would pose a problem for evolutuionary theory.

At the moment, I can not see anything that would prevent the evolution of auras if they were possible things. Thaioouba may need to clarify exactly what problems he/she thinks the aura would pose for evolution.

Starboy · 08-15-2002, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thiaoouba:
There is plenty of evidence that an
'aura' shines around humans. How then,
once it is formerly discovered, measured, studied and 'physically described' will the
'pure evolutionists' explain its creation through a totally random process?

If some one you think that an 'aura' is a joke - just be 'hypothetical' for a moment - imagine IF the aura has been discovered, and studied in detail and it's 'physical properties' found out - how would evolutionists approach explaining the aura in terms of 'purely random evolution'?

Thiaoouba,

What does the aura as measured by Kirlian photography have to do with evolution. Everything, including rocks has a Kirlian aura. Surely you do not think that rocks evolve.

Starboy

Doubting Didymus · 08-15-2002, 06:01 PM

However, there IS a theory in the abiogenesis department that clay crystals might count as a replicator, so dont count your rocks before they've hatched.

echidna · 08-15-2002, 07:10 PM

Ahhh, the mythical and ghostly thiaooba, striking without warning, inflicting massive bemusement (and mild annoyance) with pinpoint accuracy.

And like that (!!!), it�s gone �

So many witnesses, so little evidence.

Existence without substance, truly proof of the supernatural.

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08-15-2002, 12:14 PM	#21
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	'purely random evolution' Once again, evolution is not "purely random." Get that through your aura. The aura is not visible in vacuum because it is composed of electrons. Huh? Am I missing something here? Why do <a href="http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast05mar98_3.htm" target="_blank">electron microscopes</a> use vacuums, then? Photographing auras in a vacuum doesn't make sense, since you wouldn't see it - that's bacuase an aura is part of a living person and as such cannot be seen in a vacuum. So you can't see things in a vacuum? What are all those things we see in the vacuum of space, such as the moon, then? What alternate universe do you come from?

08-15-2002, 04:43 PM	#26
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	Good morning thiaoouba, glorious winter�s day today isn�t it. You�ll find a quite adequate explanation of auras here : <a href="http://www.skepdic.com/auras.html" target="_blank">http://www.skepdic.com/auras.html</a> When it comes to whether metaphysical naturalism is sufficient to explain our existence, there are actually serious and legitimate arguments which leave the issue undecided IMO. However the New Age pseudoscience �evidence� which you propose is laughable. I�ve seen first-hand people get mislead by cults like yours, have their lives threatened by pseudo-healers claiming powers which they do not possess. People who are brainwashed into following self-proclaimed spiritual leaders only to find themselves in psychological collapse when reality dawns on them. Yes, I fully acknowledge the value of spiritual (psychological) healing, but these supernatural powers claimed by such New Age cults are criminally irresponsible. When a drug company frauds laboratory results to sell more pills, I expect them charged with the full weight of the law. I expect no less from a �healer� claiming abilities which are clearly false. Do you offer any apology for continually bombarding the board with this ridiculousness without following up or responding to any criticisms, EVER ??? Or will you respond in the previous thread ?

08-15-2002, 05:15 PM	#27
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	Please, everyone. Stop talking about whether auras are real or not. Thaioouba has posited a hypothetical situation, in which auras are discovered to be real. This conversation should be about whether or not this would pose a problem for evolutuionary theory. At the moment, I can not see anything that would prevent the evolution of auras if they were possible things. Thaioouba may need to clarify exactly what problems he/she thinks the aura would pose for evolution.

08-15-2002, 06:01 PM	#29
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	However, there IS a theory in the abiogenesis department that clay crystals might count as a replicator, so dont count your rocks before they've hatched.

08-15-2002, 07:10 PM	#30
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	Ahhh, the mythical and ghostly thiaooba, striking without warning, inflicting massive bemusement (and mild annoyance) with pinpoint accuracy. And like that (!!!), it�s gone � So many witnesses, so little evidence. Existence without substance, truly proof of the supernatural.

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