Freethought & Rationalism Archive

11-18-2002, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lunachick:
Amos - doesn't that put the root of all evil right back on women?

I see it just opposite. Woman is the subconscious mind of man in both male and female. Human is the conscious mind of man in both male and female. The subconscious mind is the cause of the great push for us to become somebody. Woman is the one who holds the carrot on a stick before the idiot human identity who so must leap forward into the unknown, this is true indeed, and later he returns again find consolation in woman (seclusion, getting drunk, drugs, sex setc). If I read you right you care for them. You are too much woman for your own good and that is why you bleed for humanity. This means that you will have a painful life.

Evil? There is no evil (well, don't hang out with thieves or murderers). You and I and most people here on the boards are honest and could easily take care of each other. We could have fun and be good all-around people. Life is easy if we respect each other for who we are. I find that females are extremely capable but sometimes need the assurance of a male to guide their thoughts. I am super confident and nice to lean on, but females are wise, cunning, and clever, and I love those qualities. Yes I love their salemandrine fire!

It is a quality Jesus had when he always "slipped out of the crowd" before they could get the best of him. He was no idiot and was close to woman (Mary) who pulled the strings from behind the scenes in his life.

I forgot to add that I would hate fundies for that. I do not agree with oppression and find that the role play of male and female must be natural. The clever female will crown him king to make herself queen.

[ November 24, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]

Joel · 11-19-2002, 05:20 AM

Quote:

not a Fredricks of Hollywood peekaboo brassiere in animal-print satin

Ya know, it's things like this that make looking at this message board at work so difficult. Talk about distracting mental images.....

Tharmas · 11-19-2002, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Does anyone have any ideas as to why Satan rebelled against god?

William Blake's The Marriage of Heaven and Hell (circa 1793) offers the following comments on the subject:

Quote:

The voice of the Devil.

All Bibles or sacred codes have been the causes of the following Errors:

1. That Man has two real existing principles Viz: a Body & a Soul.

2. That Energy, calld Evil, is alone from the Body, & that Reason,
called Good, is alone from the Soul.

3. That God will torment Man in Eternity for following his Energies.

But the following Contraries to these are True:

1 Man has no Body distinct from his Soul for that calld Body is a portion of Soul discernd by the five Senses, the chief inlets of Soul in this age.

2. Energy is the only life and is from the Body and Reason is the bound or outward circumference of Energy.

3. Energy is Eternal Delight.

Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained; and the restrainer or reason usurps its place & governs the unwilling.

And being restraind it by degrees becomes passive till it is only the shadow of desire.

The history of this is written in Paradise Lost, & the Governor or Reason is call'd Messiah.

And the original Archangel or possessor of the command of the heavenly host, is calld the Devil or Satan and his children are call'd Sin & Death.

But in the Book of Job Milton's Messiah is call'd Satan. For this history has been adopted by both parties.

It indeed appear'd to Reason as if Desire was cast out, but the Devil's account is, that the Messiah fell, & formed a heaven of what he stole from the Abyss. This is shewn in the Gospel, where he prays to the Father to send the comforter or Desire that Reason may have Ideas to build on, the Jehovah of the Bible being no other than he, who dwells in flaming fire.

Know that after Christ's death, he became Jehovah.

But in Milton; the Father is Destiny, the Son, a Ratio of the five senses, & the Holy-ghost, Vacuum!

Note. The reason Milton wrote in fetters when he wrote of Angels & God, and at liberty when of Devils & Hell is because he was a true Poet and of the Devil's party without knowing it.

[Edited to add quote indications]

[ November 19, 2002: Message edited by: Tharmas ]

Lord Asriel · 11-19-2002, 06:54 AM

A while back I posted a similar preposition - that Satan is, in fact, the good guy. The one who cares about humanity, and knows that malicious and evil God is tormenting mankind for his own amusement by setting them impossible goals to live up to and making them waste their precious lives in pointless denial and devotion, and then despatching them to hell.

So Lucifer, filled with pity for the plight of mankind, rises up in rebellion against God. Trouble is, he lost. And as we all know, history is written by the victor. And so poor old Lucifer is painted as the embodiment of evil, when all he wants is for us to have fun...

Makes you think, doesn't it?

penumbra · 11-19-2002, 07:16 AM

From Joel

Quote:

Ya know, it's things like this that make looking at this message board at work so difficult. Talk about distracting mental images.

Not to mention the problem of typing one-handed and trying to clean the keyboard later!!

The Devil made me do it!!!!

Biff the unclean · 11-19-2002, 08:02 AM

And so poor old Lucifer is painted as the embodiment of evil, when all he wants is for us to have fun...
So are you saying that Satan is a form of the Prometheus myth?

Arvel Joffi · 11-19-2002, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Amos - doesn't that put the root of all evil right back on women?

It shows that Woman had courage where Man did not. Since Judaism/Christianity was run/created/corrupted/borrowed by spiritually paranoid, callow men, this could not be allowed.

Funny, she's made from his ribs, but she has the balls.

Arvel Joffi · 11-19-2002, 12:32 PM

I read ages ago, so I could be teribly mistaken here, that the roots of the Tree myth go back to this particular Sumerian myth:

The bad god came down to Earth and created a race of slaves to build glorious workd for him. His brother, the good god (Enki?), who was a snake god, felt pity for the slaves and told them that there were two trees in the other god's garden that would help them. One would give give them knowledge like gods, the other life like gods - immortality. The slaves ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge but were discovered by the bad god before they could reach the fruit of life. The bad god cast them out and cursed them, and then he waged war on his brother for his betrayal.

Now, Enki sounds like the type of god I would worship if I thought it went like that. <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

[ November 19, 2002: Message edited by: ArvelJoffi ]

hinduwoman · 11-19-2002, 06:12 PM

Check out Paradise Lost by Milton.
Satan ends up getting such good reviews in the first few cantos as rebel against a tyrant and liberator of mankind, that Milton had to completley change him in the later cantos.

11-19-2002, 06:41 PM

[
That is the normal sequence hinduwoman. He must be our friend to enjoy the world while we color our own world. He must become our enemy if we ever wish to transform our world into heaven on earth.

11-19-2002, 12:32 PM	#18
Arvel Joffi Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 3,359	I read ages ago, so I could be teribly mistaken here, that the roots of the Tree myth go back to this particular Sumerian myth: The bad god came down to Earth and created a race of slaves to build glorious workd for him. His brother, the good god (Enki?), who was a snake god, felt pity for the slaves and told them that there were two trees in the other god's garden that would help them. One would give give them knowledge like gods, the other life like gods - immortality. The slaves ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge but were discovered by the bad god before they could reach the fruit of life. The bad god cast them out and cursed them, and then he waged war on his brother for his betrayal. Now, Enki sounds like the type of god I would worship if I thought it went like that. <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> [ November 19, 2002: Message edited by: ArvelJoffi ]</p>

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11-19-2002, 06:54 AM	#14
Lord Asriel Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Essex, UK Posts: 467	A while back I posted a similar preposition - that Satan is, in fact, the good guy. The one who cares about humanity, and knows that malicious and evil God is tormenting mankind for his own amusement by setting them impossible goals to live up to and making them waste their precious lives in pointless denial and devotion, and then despatching them to hell. So Lucifer, filled with pity for the plight of mankind, rises up in rebellion against God. Trouble is, he lost. And as we all know, history is written by the victor. And so poor old Lucifer is painted as the embodiment of evil, when all he wants is for us to have fun... Makes you think, doesn't it?

11-19-2002, 08:02 AM	#16
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	And so poor old Lucifer is painted as the embodiment of evil, when all he wants is for us to have fun... So are you saying that Satan is a form of the Prometheus myth?

11-19-2002, 06:12 PM	#19
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Check out Paradise Lost by Milton. Satan ends up getting such good reviews in the first few cantos as rebel against a tyrant and liberator of mankind, that Milton had to completley change him in the later cantos.

11-19-2002, 06:41 PM	#20
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	[ That is the normal sequence hinduwoman. He must be our friend to enjoy the world while we color our own world. He must become our enemy if we ever wish to transform our world into heaven on earth.

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