hezekiah jones

The free exercise clause does not apply to acts of Congress. It's the establishment clause that is operative in these cases. The Fourteenth Amendment extends the establishment clause to the states, and thereby to the state's instruments, local governments.

[To clarify: the Constitution does not guarantee Congress' "free exercise" to enact legislation that violates the establishment clause. Obviously.]

[ May 21, 2002: Message edited by: hezekiahjones ]</p>

Godless Dave

Right. And a public school teacher or employee leading students in prayer is an establishment of religion.

How would you like it if I were a teacher in your school, and at the beginning of homeroom I said "All rise and repeat this prayer of homage to Odin, the All-Father?"

Seriously, Fastfalcon, how would that make you feel?

Darwin's Finch

FF: You are overlooking the fact that the Supreme Court long ago incorporated the first amendment, meaning that restrictions originally placed on the Congress now extend as well to state and local governments, which includes public school districts.

Fastfalcon

Yes, but the CONSTITUTION!!!! What does the constitution say?!?

Godless Dave

Because of the 14th Amendment, which explicitly states this.

hezekiah jones

You just quoted it. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." That includes state sponsored prayer. Furthermore why are you screaming?

Fastfalcon

Amendment 14
(Ratified July 9, 1868)
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provision of this article.

hezekiah jones

Very good, FastFalcon.

Fastfalcon

It say Congress shall make no law. Congress. Sorry about screaming. I just get tired of hearing about "separation of church and state" which was a quote from Thomas Jefferson in one of his letters to a friend.

hezekiah jones

As you have been told repeatedly the 14th amendment incorporates the bill of rights to the states, and thereby to local governments, school boards, etc. Specifically the establishment clause was incorporated in 1947.