Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

1) I know a guy who used to do lots of drugs and alchohol, and now, he doesn't. He doesn't believe in God now, nor did he ever. He got a girlfriend. And I can verify her existence, quite easily, because I work with both of them.

2) I asked Thoth to give me twenty bucks. Five minutes later, I found twenty bucks on the street. Coincidence? I think not. Therefore, Thoth is real!

3) Chlorophyll makes the grass green. Green light is not very good for photosynthesis, thus it is reflected--thereby making it green. (someone here correct me if I'm wrong on this--I have a faulty memory sometimes)

4) The sky is blue because light is scattered by ions and atoms higher in the atmosphere, leaving the blue light more visibile. (as the note above)

5) There does not need to be a God. Why does there need to be? Assertion means little.

6) Pascal's wager. Yes, actuall, if there is no God, you have lost something--your freedom of choice in behaviour. You think people go to church, say prayers, and read the Bible because they WANT to? That in and of themselves, they would do those things--without regard to how their peers will view them if they don't, what will happen in the afterlife if they don', etc? Since your time on Earth is finite, you shouldn't go out of your way to do unpleasant things.

7) I can hate someone a lot. That person still may decide to save my ass from certain doom because he's a good person at heart. If God won't do this to someone, he's an asshole--and definately not good.

Point that out to him. The first two things are from my personal experience. 3 and 4 are easily verifiable (I'm pretty sure that's how they are--just check up on that). 5 and 6 are self explanatory, and as for 7--well, that's the kicker. Enjoy.

chekmate

ROUND TWO

Well, I used almost all of your ideas, and made a list of questions for his as well. He responded with Copy and Pastes from <a href="http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:fcfR2sCpXGwC:www.geocities.com/cosmicengineer/L1.html" target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://www.godexistence.com/five.htm" target="_blank">here (Warning... music)</a> How do I respond?

Don't know why the top URL isn't working. Could a mod fix it please? Thanks

[ July 19, 2002: Message edited by: chekmate ]

[ July 19, 2002: Message edited by: Sephiroth ]</p>

Sephiroth

Well, I hope I fixed it.

A good response would be, "The arguments those pages use are based entirely on assumptions without evidence that can be used for any religion."

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

Well, the universe is indeed all that ever was, and that's what the evidence points too. Funny that they say the exact opposite.

Oh well, proof destroys faith--thereby destroying religion. Tell them that.

Caverdude

Hey Checkmate,
Dianna gave great advice. It seems to me this guy might be rather young and perhaps not very scientifically literate. Therefore, any arguement you pose regarding hard science will probably fall on deaf ears. I have engaged in such debates with friends and relatives and have NEVER convinced any of them that creationism (literalism) is wrong. As someone else said here: your only tools are logic and reason, but creationists have abandoned logic and reason and rely only on their belief system. Good luck!

Albion

Oh, dear. Who was it who said that you can't reason a person out of a position he didn't reason himself into? I mean, I strongly doubt you're going to make any difference to his beliefs about God and religion, but you might end up making a difference to his beliefs about atheists. If you just stay calm, pleasant, and firm and discuss your position without belittling his, you might get something through to him by osmosis.