Fastfalcon

And if you are going to bash me, then don't curse me. Read and comment.
1. 1Thess 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. this means that millions of people around the wold will disappear instantly. Some will say UFOs, Weird Science, Nukes, an enemy did this. but how would you explain millions of children disappearing?
2. After this, an evil guy known as the AntChrist will come on to the world stage and control the world thru the EU. He will have a slick personality, promise peace to Israel, and force people to wear a mark of some kind. You will not be able to buy or sell without this mark and if you refuse to wear it, then he will kill you. Thus said, he will be more evil than Hitler and Stalin combined.
3. around this time, the 7-year Tribulation will arrive, starting with a peace treaty between the AntiChrist and Israel. this will trigger the Tribulation. (for more read the book of Revelation, chapter 6 onwards)
<a href="http://www.raptureme.com/resource/kjv/Revelation.html" target="_blank">Revelation</a>
4. A temple in Jerusalem will be built for the Jews. This would be considered the Third Temple. It will be built where the Dome on the Rock is standing now. The AntiChrist, 3.5 years into the Tribulation will stop all animal sacrifices and desecrate (defile) this temple. that would be likened to the President coming to your house and spray painting all over the place.

Godless Dave

FastFalcon,

It looks like you are taking prophecies from Revelation and trying to use them to predict the near future. People have been doing that at least since the end of the tenth century without any success. Do you have anything new to offer?

This isn't a bash or a curse. I'm trying to discuss the things you brought up.

Atticus_Finch

Christ himself said that no man knows the time of his return. Although I believe the study of Revelation is fruitful for a Christian, I believe we should focus more on the routine dangers of life (i.e. getting hit by a truck on the way home) to convince people that they need to consider the destination of their soul.

Regards,

Finch

Fastfalcon

I am not saying that I know when these times are coming:
Matt 24:36-37 For of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. the day and hour is the day and hour of the Rapture which is 1Thess 4:16-17 is talking about.
and by bash and curse I mean like s--- and f---, these kind of words.
I just want to see what people here think of these ideas. Although I think that these prophesies might very soon be true.

[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Fastfalcon ]</p>

Talulah

I don't think people will be wondering what is going on if the Lord comes from the sky shouting with angels and all those trumpets and such. Just an idea that I have.

Also, I don't see where it says they will disappear, it says they will be 'caught up in the clouds, so realistically, we are talking some people floating into the clouds. Again, I don't think we will be missing this spectacular event (by we I mean all us infidels left on earth having a rockin' good time while all the Xtiains are off floating up, up to the clouds )

I am sorry, please provide book, chapter and verse for this assertion. Thank you.

See above

Here is what I think. I think you should spend your brain power for more worthwhile tasks.

Talulah

Godless Dave

As to what I think of the ideas, they are part of an end of the world story, something common to most mythologies. Revelation was one of the first books of the bible I read. I liked some of the imagery but found most of the symbolism to be obtuse, until I read an introductory book on biblical scholarship my grandmother gave me. It explained that the author was drawing allegories to contemporary political events in the Roman Empire, so many of the details would only make sense to people who were alive at the time. Like many ancient writers, he wrote in allegory to make it harder to charge him with sedition or libel. I think it's more readable in translation than the Norse stories of Ragnarok, but the charcterizations aren't as interesting. Both approach it from a point of view of linear time, as opposed to a continuous cycle. Revelation is pretty explicit about what happens afterward, while Norse myths only give a few hints, but in both the world is different afterwards than it was before. Some of the principal characters continue on in the new world, but they are also changed.

Can anyone point me to corresponding stories from other cultures?

diana

1. 1Thess 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Interesting. The Lord hisself will jump out of the clouds with a shout. Granted, none of us know what he looks like or sounds like, but it does sound like something that will command our attention, indeed. Well...those of us who are on the bit of the earth he selects for a landing pad, that is.

But the archangel will be saying something, too. And God's trumpet will play itself. Or something. Sounds like quite a din.

But then the dead get up and start walking around. So we have all those dead people who believed in your little god rising from the oceans, clawing their way out of the ground, and scratching mindlessly at the lids of their expensive coffins. And there's also the sad plight of those who were cremated and their bones crushed who can't really rise, regardless.

So let's say you're alive when this happens. Before you're "caught up into the clouds," your great-aunt Emma rises from her grave. She's missed you, too. So she pops in and gives you a big hug and kiss. Oh don't worry...she still has (some) flesh left.

It does indeed sound exciting.

Then you're caught up into the clouds to meet and worship your Lord forever. The irony is that you're working your bump off to go to heaven, but it's really the true hell. It's the "name it Greenland, and they will come" trick, don't you see?

2. After this, an evil guy known as the AntChrist

HAHAHAHAHA. *snort*

Sorry. The AntChrist, though. You gotta admit that's funny.

will come on to the world stage and control the world thru the EU.

European Union?

(for more read the book of Revelation, chapter 6 onwards)

I think I'll just wait for the movie, thanks.

The AntiChrist, 3.5 years into the Tribulation will stop all animal sacrifices and desecrate (defile) this temple.

So we'll go back to animal sacrifices, then? When did that happen? You lost me.

that would be likened to the President coming to your house and spray painting all over the place.

Or crapping on my living room carpet. Gotcha.

If you'd like to discuss what Revelation says, please provide a direct quote for each idea you gleaned from it, as this facilitates discussion of those ideas. We are interested (somewhat) in your interpretation of the book, but please give us the exact reference you're interpreting. Consider it a gesture of good faith.

d

daemon

I think they're prophecies, and as such, probably false. Prophecy has a remarkably poor track record.

wordsmyth

What about this prophecy from the NT.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Verse 34 says it was supposed to happen before that generation passed. Well, that generation passed over 1900 years ago and the sun didn't darken, stars haven't fallen from heaven, the moon still gives light and angels haven't come to gather his[God's] elect.

Fastfalcon

The antichrist stuff comes from Daniel 7 onwards. Here is more scripture on the Rapture:
Matthew 24:36-41 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Matthew 24:42-50 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
He comes like a thief.
"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man" (Luke 21:36).

"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come" (1 Thessalonians 1:10).

" For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

John 14:2-4 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
'Behold, I come like a thief! Rev 16:15
There is no doubt that we would know when the Rapture would happen. Planes would fall out of the sky, cars would crash, many children will be missing and many piles of clothes would be left.