FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-14-2007, 04:23 PM   #1
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
Default Criticial Review of Pre-Nicene Christian papyri and inscriptions ==> 4th CE origins

Critical Review of Pre-Nicene papyri and epigraphy:
www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/epigraphic_habit.htm


The following review examines an extendable series of ancient inscriptions which have in the past been cited in terms of ancient historical evidence for the existence of "christians" in the epigraphic record before the rise of Constantine. There has in the past been no reason to question these findings. In fact, the findings were rare and for that very reason - also very welcome. Assumptions have been made by scholars in the field, many of them on a mission funded by institutions with theological concerns.
The surprising results of this review of early christian evidence is that there is not one single inscription, papyrii or archeological and/or scientific citation which provides anything like a statisfactory, let alone an unambiguous, reference to "christians" or "christianity" before the rise of Constantine.

Hence the Eusebian fiction postulate is defended;
and shown consistent with the following evidence.


INDEX of cited "Early Christian" Inscriptions

01 253 CE - de Rossi's Cornelius Stone [Probable forgery].
02 250 CE - The Marcus son of Alexander inscription. ["I beg of you, kind brothers, by the one God"]
03 217 CE - the Marcus Aurelius Prosenes inscription. [Later hand: "welcomed before god"]
04 250 CE - Basilides Inscription, Ostia, Rome [The phrase "he sleeps" is christian?]
05 3rd CE - "Helix" athlete, Eumenia. [not located]
06 3rd CE - Nicomedia, Bithnya: 3rd CE Phoenician wood carver. [not located]
07 3rd CE - Aurelius Aristeas Inscription, Akmonein. ["reckon with the righteousness of God."]
08 1st CE - Erastus Inscription, mid first century. ["Paul mentions an Erastus"]
09 3rd CE - Fox; Harland; Snyder - Asia Minor and Phrygia ["he will reckon with (the living) God." ].
10 200 CE - The Marcus Demetrianos Inscription ["most holy ones who also had faith in God"].
11 216 CE - Inscription of Abercius [Cannot be unambiguously associated with christianity]
12 253 CE - Inscription of Pectorius. [Cannot be unambiguously associated with christianity]


INDEX of cited "Early Christian" Papyrii and Papyrii Fragments

101 sql CE: P.Oxy 5 "christian". [Nomina sacra ?]
102 3rd CE: P.Bas 17 [non christian]
103 303 CE: P.Oxy 43 Nighwatchmen's report - 2 churches. [two churches]
104 sql CE: P.Oxy 210 A "christian" fragment. [Nomina sacra ?]
105 3rd CE: P.Oxy. 405 Irenaeus.[Dating?]
106 3/4 CE: P.Oxy 407 "christian amulet; 3rd/4th century". [4th amulet]
107 265 CE: P.Oxy. 412 and 907[Nomina sacra ?]
108 2nd CE: PSI.XIV.1412 "via Sotas, the christian". [chrestian?]
109 3rd CE: P.Oxy 1786 Hymn with music "christian". [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit]
110 3rd CE: P.Oxy 2070 Scratch pad "christian". [abbreviated (I—h—) 'Jesus']
111 3rd CE: P.Oxy. 2276[ “in the lord god” ]
112 3rd CE: P.Oxy. 2404 [ “in the lord god” ]
113 256 CE: P.Oxy 3035 Order to arrest "chrestian". [citation is "chrestian"]
114 3rd CE: P.Oxy 4365 Booklending.[incorrectly presumed christian]
115 3/4 CE: P.Oxy 1493 lines 4–5; Nomina sacra in letter with virtually no other Christian identifiers[Nomina sacra]

INDEX of other interesting "Non Christian" Papyrii Fragments which cannot detain us

151 xxx CE: P.Oxy. 3057 [Judge, non christian]
152 xxx CE: P.Oxy. 3313 [Judge, non christian]
153 xxx CE: P.Oxy. 3069 [Judge, non christian]
154 xxx CE: P.Oxy. 3314 [Judge, non christian]
155 4th CE: P.Oxy. 209 [sample]
156 4th CE: P.Oxy. 4127 [sample]
157 4th CE: P.Oxy. 3857 ["Greetings in the Lord"]
158 3rd CE: PSI.9.1041 . ["as is proper"]
159 3rd CE: PSI.9.1041 . ["as is proper"]
160 3rd CE: PSI.9.1041 . ["as is proper"]
161 2nd CE: PSI.3.208 . ["according to custom"]
162 4th CE: P.Oxy. 4010 [magic and "the lord's prayer"]
163 3rd CE: P.Oxy. 32 [everyday life]
164 3rd CE: P.Oxy. 3646 [everyday life]
165 3rd CE: P.Oxy. 115 [everyday life]
166 3rd CE: P.Oxy. 3724 [epigrams to Philodemis]
167 4th CE: P.Walsh Univ.I.20 [church "land-grabs"]
168 4th CE: P.Oxy. 3311 [church "land-grabs"]
169 304 CE: P.Oxy. 2673 [the "illiterate lector"]


INDEX of cited "Early Christian" Archeological relics

200 Early "christian" Art, Pottery Objects, sarcophagi, relics, sculpture.


Is there a missing inscription not on the index?
Send an email to arius at the domain of mountainman.com.au


Hence the thesis in the field of ancient history that
Constantine invented Christianity in the fourth century
and fraudulently misrepresented ancient history.

Best wishes to the researchers of ancient history,
archaeology and the scientific technological future.


Pete Brown
mountainman is offline  
Old 09-15-2007, 03:45 AM   #2
Jo
System Overlord
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand twitter.com/Alcyonian
Posts: 23,659
Default

Hello, Mountainman.

I'm curious so forgive me - but are you a theologian? I've been through numerous threads and have noticed your input on Church history and authenticity.
Jo is offline  
Old 09-15-2007, 05:36 PM   #3
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcyonian View Post
Hello, Mountainman.

I'm curious so forgive me - but are you a theologian? I've been through numerous threads and have noticed your input on Church history and authenticity.
I'd like to think that the field of my study
is ancient history. Time will tell whether
my thesis (in the field of ancient history)
holds water.

Best wishes,


Pete
mountainman is offline  
Old 09-15-2007, 05:57 PM   #4
Jo
System Overlord
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand twitter.com/Alcyonian
Posts: 23,659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman View Post

I'd like to think that the field of my study
is ancient history. Time will tell whether
my thesis (in the field of ancient history)
holds water.

Best wishes,


Pete
Thanks Pete,

A question in regards to Theodosius - when Rome incorporated the Law of Providence what effect did it have do you think?

Jo
Jo is offline  
Old 09-15-2007, 10:04 PM   #5
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
Default

Ammianus Marcellinus was a Greek in the Roman army, and
of all the historians whose writings survive of the fourth
century, is considered by ancient historians, to be the
most reliable.

In reponse to your question about "theologians" it occurs
to me to provide a quote from this Ammianus, which expresses
some notions of the fourth century theologians, and the
central and important figures in their belief systems.

Sometime c.395 CE Ammianus writes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammianus Marcellinus
“The theologians maintain that there are associated with all men at their birth, but without interference with the established course of destiny, certain divinities of that sort, as directors of their conduct; but they have been seen by only a very few, whom their manifold merits have raised to eminence. And this oracles and writers of distinction have shown; among the latter is also the comic poet Menander, in whom we read these two searii: "A daemon is assigned to every man at birth, to be the leader of his life". Likewise from the immortal poems of Homer we are given to understand that it was not the gods of heaven that spoke with brave men, and stood by them or aided them as they fought, but that guardian spirits attended them; and through reliance upon their special support, it is said, that Pythagoras, Socrates, and Numa Pompilius became famous; also the earlier Scipio, and (as some believe) Marius and Octavianus, who first had the title of Augustus conferred upon him, and Hermes Trismegistus, Apollonius of Tyana, and Plotinus, who ventured to discourse on this mystic theme, and to present a profound discussion on the question by what elements these spirits are linked with men's souls, and taking them to their bosoms, as it were, protect them (as long as possible) and give them higher instruction, if they perceive that they are pure and kept from the pollution of sin through association with an immaculate body.”

To me this seems to say we are responsible for our own
guardianship of ourselves, our actions and our words.
This seems reasonably close to the definition of the

Infidels's Mission Statement
, by Richard Carrier:

From our inception in 1995 the mission of the Internet Infidels has always been to defend and promote Metaphysical Naturalism, a term coined by philosophers for any worldview that holds that nature is all there is.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcyonian View Post
A question in regards to Theodosius - when Rome incorporated the Law of Providence what effect did it have do you think?

Jo
Could you clarify which Theodosius, and the dates.
Offhand, the earliest Theodosius ruled towards the
end of the fourth century. The basilicas went up
around the empire during Constantine's rule through
to 337. His will was preserved by Constantius to 360.

The Emperor Julian briefly ruled 360-363, and published
his conviction that "the fabrication of the Galilaeans
was a fiction of men composed by wickedness".

However, Julian did not last long. The Nicene Oath
was rich and prosperous, and had the imperially granted
power to remain that way. Christianity was by then
too new and too dominant to be bothered about technical
details, or to be tolerant of academic opinion.

Even in his brief rule, Jovian ordered the burning
of the Library of Antioch , the death penalty for all
those that worship their ancestral gods or practice
divination, the confiscation of all properties of the
pagan temples, and the death penalty for
participation in pagan rituals, even private ones.

Only then do we get to Theodosius (the first).
The fourth century christian regime was intolerant,
and persecuted opposition with death and destruction.

The christian regime was inaugurated by Constantine
at Antioch, and formalised by signatures-under-duress
of all the personally summoned attendees to Nicaea.

As an ancient historian, it appears to me that the
origins of christianity, and all its literature, is no
earlier than Constantine's rise to supremacy, from
Rome 312-324 CE.

I have examined literally thousands of database
records for papyri, and hundreds of epigraphic
citations, and neither source provides any
unambiguous support for the ecclesiastical
literature tendered by Eusebius to Constantine.
with respect to the existence of
"anything whatsoever 'christian'"
in the Pre-Nicene Epoch.

There we have it.

Christianity was invented and established
as an imperial racket: Constantine was the
Pontifex Maximus and Emperor, and he was
permitted to sponsor any cult he wished.

They all did before him. You name them.


Only Constantine invented his own religion.
It was better for business. One head man:
the boss = "bishop of bishops". He had the
power, and the military mind to forge legions
of fictions, flooding the second sophistic with
"christian related literature".

The Nag Hammadi find (c.348 CE) shows evidence of the
"christianisation of literature". It was a move
from the top down. Imperially inspired and
imperially supported. Noone had a chance,
at that time, to oppose Constantine.

He won all his battles.



Best wishes,


Pete
mountainman is offline  
Old 09-15-2007, 10:18 PM   #6
Jo
System Overlord
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand twitter.com/Alcyonian
Posts: 23,659
Default

Theodosius 401 to 450 CE who reigned over the Eastern Roman providence from 408 CE until his death. His collection of the Codex Theodosianus in 438. A collection of laws since Constantine 1. I have called them Law of Providence. Some historians feel this brought about the fall of Rome - slipping into the dark ages.
Jo is offline  
Old 09-15-2007, 10:24 PM   #7
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Massachusetts, USA -- Let's Go Red Sox!
Posts: 1,500
Default

Don't encourage him, Jo.
God Fearing Atheist is offline  
Old 09-15-2007, 10:42 PM   #8
Jo
System Overlord
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand twitter.com/Alcyonian
Posts: 23,659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by God Fearing Atheist View Post
Don't encourage him, Jo.
Haha sorry GFA.
Jo is offline  
Old 09-15-2007, 10:55 PM   #9
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcyonian View Post
Theodosius 401 to 450 CE who reigned over the Eastern Roman providence from 408 CE until his death. His collection of the Codex Theodosianus in 438. A collection of laws since Constantine 1. I have called them Law of Providence. Some historians feel this brought about the fall of Rome - slipping into the dark ages.
Specifically there are no available English translations
of Book 16 of Codex Theodosius on the internet.

See Vlasis Rassias, Demolish Them!

Best wishes,


Pete
mountainman is offline  
Old 09-15-2007, 10:57 PM   #10
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by God Fearing Atheist View Post
Don't encourage him, Jo.

WTF are you afraid of God Fearing Atheist?


Best wishes,



Pete Brown
mountainman is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:51 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.