Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vampyroteuthis · 06-29-2007, 02:30 PM

Just an FYI for anyone who might be interested in the Qur'an and what it contains. I found this really cool little program you can download and read it and view "commentary". I'm not muslim (or anything else for that matter) but I wanted to see for myself what exactly it does say and not have to purchase a copy. I'm sure they must have a bible versions of the program but I think this thing is soooo cool! You can get it from here if you like: http://www.soft32.com/download_4097.html

It's called the "Holy Qur'an Viewer 2.913" in case the link doesn't work.

the Radio Star · 07-02-2007, 06:14 PM

I bought a Qu'ran today at Barnes and Noble for $8.95, and copy of The Origin of Species for $7.95. The checkout lady probably thought I was quite condemned. I could have paid $22+ for a green hardback version with heavy commentary and the English and Arabic text next to each other, but I went with the cheaper version. May Allah have mercy on my soul.

One question I had was whether it mattered if it was translated by a non-Muslim as long as he is still fluent in Arabic and an authority on Islam? He taught Arabic in England but was clearly not a Muslim. And the title read "Koran" when he refered to it as the Qu'ran in the text.

Enki · 07-03-2007, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Radio Star

I bought a Qu'ran
One question I had was whether it mattered if it was translated by a non-Muslim as long as he is still fluent in Arabic and an authority on Islam? He taught Arabic in England but was clearly not a Muslim. And the title read "Koran" when he refered to it as the Qu'ran in the text.

They also used to do a lot of acrobat act in translating Quran from Arabic to any other Language just to fake that Quran had it all and Mohammad predicted all the scientific fact we currently know !'

I don't recommend taking the wording of this translation seriously !

and by the way here is an example of playing with words:

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...ier/islam.html

Enki

07-03-2007, 03:08 AM

Radio Star, I wouldn't worry too much if the translator wasn't Muslim as long as he was fluent in Arabic. The best English translations I know of are Pickthal and Yusuf Ali. Avoid Khalifa. He's known to have re-written parts of it to make himself look good.

Regarding the traditional canard that you can't really read the Qur'an unless you read it in Arabic my advice would be not to believe it. What they don't tell you is that twenty percent of the Qur'an doesn't even make sense in Arabic!
Seriously. It's gibberish. Even the top clerics have no idea what it means.

Blui · 07-03-2007, 03:16 AM

Mung Bean is correct.

I would suggest Pikthals over all others, unfortunately as Islam has come under scrutiny, translators have liberally inserted their own words to make it look good, even Yusuf Ali is guilty of this.

As a comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blui

Khalifa this is the one your using
Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

Pikthal
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Shakir
So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Yusuf Ali
And when the forbidden months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever you find them and take them captive, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakát, then leave their way free. Surely, ALLAH is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

Note the bolded on Khalifa's.

Its a bit of a pain in the ass that you can't trust translations from Muslims off the bat, but thats bias for you, i suggest Pikthals, and read a Tafsir such as Ibn Kathir on relevant verses so you can at least compare and make sure it's not whitewashed.

07-03-2007, 03:29 AM

And boy does the Qur'an need whitewashing!

In fact Id' advise a thick coat of primer/filler, followed by thorough sanding, undercoat and at least six coats of two pack urethane. Then buff.

MrFungus420 · 07-03-2007, 05:46 AM

For easy online reference, I use the Skeptic's annotated Quran.

They also have the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

mojuang · 07-03-2007, 05:58 AM

Hey Blui,What does the original Arabic say? These slaughter....encounter...and etc, wouldnt they somehow be corrected by the original?

mojuang · 07-03-2007, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mung bean

What they don't tell you is that twenty percent of the Qur'an doesn't even make sense in Arabic!
Seriously. It's gibberish. Even the top clerics have no idea what it means.

Is this for real?Its something i never heard anyone confess!! could you say more on this Blui?

premjan · 07-03-2007, 06:06 AM

Maybe it is archaic?

06-29-2007, 02:30 PM	#1
Vampyroteuthis Contributor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 14,915	Qur'an Information.... Just an FYI for anyone who might be interested in the Qur'an and what it contains. I found this really cool little program you can download and read it and view "commentary". I'm not muslim (or anything else for that matter) but I wanted to see for myself what exactly it does say and not have to purchase a copy. I'm sure they must have a bible versions of the program but I think this thing is soooo cool! You can get it from here if you like: http://www.soft32.com/download_4097.html It's called the "Holy Qur'an Viewer 2.913" in case the link doesn't work.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

07-02-2007, 06:14 PM	#2
the Radio Star Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: IL Posts: 978	I bought a Qu'ran today at Barnes and Noble for $8.95, and copy of The Origin of Species for $7.95. The checkout lady probably thought I was quite condemned. I could have paid $22+ for a green hardback version with heavy commentary and the English and Arabic text next to each other, but I went with the cheaper version. May Allah have mercy on my soul. One question I had was whether it mattered if it was translated by a non-Muslim as long as he is still fluent in Arabic and an authority on Islam? He taught Arabic in England but was clearly not a Muslim. And the title read "Koran" when he refered to it as the Qu'ran in the text.

07-03-2007, 03:08 AM	#4
mung bean Guest Posts: n/a	Radio Star, I wouldn't worry too much if the translator wasn't Muslim as long as he was fluent in Arabic. The best English translations I know of are Pickthal and Yusuf Ali. Avoid Khalifa. He's known to have re-written parts of it to make himself look good. Regarding the traditional canard that you can't really read the Qur'an unless you read it in Arabic my advice would be not to believe it. What they don't tell you is that twenty percent of the Qur'an doesn't even make sense in Arabic! Seriously. It's gibberish. Even the top clerics have no idea what it means.

07-03-2007, 03:29 AM	#6
mung bean Guest Posts: n/a	And boy does the Qur'an need whitewashing! In fact Id' advise a thick coat of primer/filler, followed by thorough sanding, undercoat and at least six coats of two pack urethane. Then buff.

07-03-2007, 05:46 AM	#7
MrFungus420 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: gone Posts: 1,320	For easy online reference, I use the Skeptic's annotated Quran. They also have the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

07-03-2007, 05:58 AM	#8
mojuang Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: mombasa,Kenya Posts: 52	Hey Blui,What does the original Arabic say? These slaughter....encounter...and etc, wouldnt they somehow be corrected by the original?

07-03-2007, 06:06 AM	#10
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	Maybe it is archaic?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.