Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Seg · 12-12-2004, 11:49 AM

I've been reading a lot of the bible both online and in my copy and I have been unable to locate the parts in the bible that proclaim god as all knowing, all powerful and everywhere at all times. These 'powers' have been assumed for as long as I can remember but I have never found their place in the bible. Can someone help me out and point out the passages that say God has these powers?

-Seg

Toto · 12-12-2004, 11:19 PM

Good question. The God desribed in the Hebrew Scriptures is clearly not all-knowing or all powerful, or everywhere at one time. He had to rest on the seventh day (you don't hear about Gravity taking a rest, do you?) He can't keep track of what his first creations are doing in the garden and has to look around for them, and he is defeated by iron chariots at one point.

However, this appears to be a standard apologetic list of verses calling God omniscient (all praise to Google): God's omnicience (although some of these seem a bit dubious to me - saying that God knows what is in your heart is not the same as saying that God knows everything.

1 Sam. 2:3
for the LORD is a God who knows,
and by him deeds are weighed.

1 Sam. 16:7; Acts 1:24; 15:8; Rom. 8:27; 1 Cor. 3:20

God knows a man's heart (cf. 1 Ki. 8:39; 2 Ch. 6:30).

1 Ch. 28:9

And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts.

(cf. 2 Ch. 16:9; Heb. 4:12).

Matt. 6:4, 18

God sees the things done in secret.

Heb. 4:13

There is no creature hidden from God's sight.

Matt. 6:32

God knows all our needs.

Matt. 10:29

Nothing happens apart from God's will (cf. Ja. 4:13-16).

Acts 2:23

Jesus was delivered to the Jews to be crucified by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God.

Matt. 24:36
No one but God knows the day and hour of judgment.

There is also

Quote:

Gather together and come; assemble, you fugitives from the nations. Ignorant are those who carry about idols of wood, who pray to gods that cannot save. Declare what is to be, present it—let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other." (Isaiah 45:20-22)

Sensei Meela · 12-13-2004, 08:49 AM

Omniscience:
Job 42:2
John 16:29-31

Omnipresence:
Psalms 139:7-9

Omnipotence:
Gen 18:4
Matt 19:26 (See also: Mark 10:27, Luke 1:37, Luke 18:27)

I'm sure that these are not exhaustive, nor exactly "official," but they are the ones that popped into mind.

adnauseum · 12-13-2004, 10:46 AM

Isaiah 11:2-3
et requiescet super eum spiritus Domini spiritus sapientiae et intellectus spiritus consilii et fortitudinis spiritus scientiae et pietatis et replebit eum spiritus timoris Domini

[On the messiah] will rest the spirit of the Lord, a spirit of wisdom and understanding, a spirit of counsel, and strength, a spirit of knowledge and piety, and he will be filled with the fear of the Lord

Sapientia – wisdom, discernment
Intellectus – understanding, comprehension
Consilium – deliberation, judgement, resolution, plan
Fortitudo – strength, courage, deeds of bravery
Scientia – knowledge
Pietas – duty, devotion, kindness
Timoris Domini – fear of the Lord

This statement has the added bonus in that it not only tells you what the attributes of God are, it reminds you that we too, being created in the image of God, may receive these attributes as supernatural gifts.

Notice especially scientia, which is the word Aristotle and St. Thomas Aquinas used to refer to necessary truth, knowledge as reached through first principles. Moderns don't like to think of cognitive features in the concept of God. They want the fuzzy mushy huggable God.

Carmack · 12-15-2004, 11:33 AM

I've heard this about
Judges 1:19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

"This is a misconception. And, by the way, you're using the KJV, one of the worst Bibles around today. Let's look at the NIV, shall we? But before I do that, the word "he," in plural form is "they." So, let me put down the verse and then tell you who it was who could not drive out the inhabitants of the mountain.

"The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots." In other words, it was the men of Judah who had the problem, not God.

12-12-2004, 11:49 AM	#1
Seg Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Here Posts: 9	Trouble defining God's powers via the bible I've been reading a lot of the bible both online and in my copy and I have been unable to locate the parts in the bible that proclaim god as all knowing, all powerful and everywhere at all times. These 'powers' have been assumed for as long as I can remember but I have never found their place in the bible. Can someone help me out and point out the passages that say God has these powers? -Seg

12-13-2004, 08:49 AM	#3
Sensei Meela Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: AZ, u.s.a. Posts: 1,202	Err, roughly... *Omniscience:* Job 42:2 John 16:29-31 *Omnipresence:* Psalms 139:7-9 *Omnipotence:* Gen 18:4 Matt 19:26 (See also: Mark 10:27, Luke 1:37, Luke 18:27) I'm sure that these are not exhaustive, nor exactly "official," but they are the ones that popped into mind.

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12-13-2004, 10:46 AM	#4
adnauseum Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 6	Isaiah 11:2-3 et requiescet super eum spiritus Domini spiritus sapientiae et intellectus spiritus consilii et fortitudinis spiritus scientiae et pietatis et replebit eum spiritus timoris Domini [On the messiah] will rest the spirit of the Lord, a spirit of wisdom and understanding, a spirit of counsel, and strength, a spirit of knowledge and piety, and he will be filled with the fear of the Lord Sapientia – wisdom, discernment Intellectus – understanding, comprehension Consilium – deliberation, judgement, resolution, plan Fortitudo – strength, courage, deeds of bravery Scientia – knowledge Pietas – duty, devotion, kindness Timoris Domini – fear of the Lord This statement has the added bonus in that it not only tells you what the attributes of God are, it reminds you that we too, being created in the image of God, may receive these attributes as supernatural gifts. Notice especially scientia, which is the word Aristotle and St. Thomas Aquinas used to refer to necessary truth, knowledge as reached through first principles. Moderns don't like to think of cognitive features in the concept of God. They want the fuzzy mushy huggable God.

12-15-2004, 11:33 AM	#5
Carmack Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 42	I've heard this about Judges 1:19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. "This is a misconception. And, by the way, you're using the KJV, one of the worst Bibles around today. Let's look at the NIV, shall we? But before I do that, the word "he," in plural form is "they." So, let me put down the verse and then tell you who it was who could not drive out the inhabitants of the mountain. "The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots." In other words, it was the men of Judah who had the problem, not God.

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