Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ebonmuse · 05-25-2004, 08:10 PM

Romans 16:22 (RSV): "I Tertius, the writer of this letter, greet you in the Lord."

Who is this guy? I know that not all the NT epistles are held to be genuine to Paul, but it was my understanding that Romans was considered one of the authentic ones. I know there's no way I'm the first person who's noticed this, so what's the deal here?

Several online references I've consulted say that Tertius was Paul's scribe, but they don't explain how they arrived at that conclusion. From the wording it seems just as likely to me that this Tertius person is actually claiming authorship (and Paul was supposed to be a learned Pharisee, right? Surely he'd have been literate - why did he need a scribe to write his letters for him?). I would be much obliged if someone who knew more about the NT than I could clear this up.

WWSD · 05-25-2004, 08:31 PM

According to my Oxford Annotated Bible, Tertius was the guy to whom Paul dictated his letter.

CX · 05-26-2004, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebonmuse

Paul was supposed to be a learned Pharisee, right? Surely he'd have been literate - why did he need a scribe to write his letters for him?

In the period in question, writing as a scribe, though respected, was somewhat of a vocational occupation. It was not uncommon for the upper class who were literate to dictate their correspondence and other writing very much the way executives today dictate to ther secretaries.

redzrx · 05-28-2004, 06:16 AM

Would not the scribe mention he was been dictated too? Could this letter have been thought of as being pauls but was actually Tertuis?
It does seem like he is taking authorship of the letter as his only.

Do we see this in other writings for that period of time?

Thanx

Mario

Vorkosigan · 05-28-2004, 02:45 PM

Some exegetes see Romans as a composite of several letters. In which case, Tertius would only be the author of his section.

Vorkosigan

TheBigKahoona · 05-28-2004, 09:19 PM

"Would not the scribe mention he was been dictated too? Could this letter have been thought of as being pauls but was actually Tertuis?"

THroughout the book of Romans Paul refers to himself and his various exploits. While the authenticity of Romans can be called into question its contents certainly have little to do with anything "Tertius" did.

offa · 05-29-2004, 02:36 AM

6. As the Davids were numbered 1, 2, 3, and 4, the
corresponding Herods, starting with the crown prince, were called
by the original numbers: protos, deuteros, tritos, tetartos.
When their positions were taken by others in the Rome province,
they were called by the latin equivalents. The names Secundus,
Tertius and Quartus are found (A 20:4, Rom 16:22-23).

ISBN 0-06-067782-1 p.356

05-25-2004, 08:10 PM	#1
Ebonmuse Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: - Posts: 722	Who is Tertius? Romans 16:22 (RSV): "I Tertius, the writer of this letter, greet you in the Lord." Who is this guy? I know that not all the NT epistles are held to be genuine to Paul, but it was my understanding that Romans was considered one of the authentic ones. I know there's no way I'm the first person who's noticed this, so what's the deal here? Several online references I've consulted say that Tertius was Paul's scribe, but they don't explain how they arrived at that conclusion. From the wording it seems just as likely to me that this Tertius person is actually claiming authorship (and Paul was supposed to be a learned Pharisee, right? Surely he'd have been literate - why did he need a scribe to write his letters for him?). I would be much obliged if someone who knew more about the NT than I could clear this up.

05-28-2004, 06:16 AM	#4
redzrx Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ontario Posts: 87	Is this common practice Would not the scribe mention he was been dictated too? Could this letter have been thought of as being pauls but was actually Tertuis? It does seem like he is taking authorship of the letter as his only. Do we see this in other writings for that period of time? Thanx Mario

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05-25-2004, 08:31 PM	#2
WWSD Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Albucrazy, New Mexico Posts: 1,425	According to my Oxford Annotated Bible, Tertius was the guy to whom Paul dictated his letter.

05-28-2004, 02:45 PM	#5
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Some exegetes see Romans as a composite of several letters. In which case, Tertius would only be the author of his section. Vorkosigan

05-28-2004, 09:19 PM	#6
TheBigKahoona Regular Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 171	"Would not the scribe mention he was been dictated too? Could this letter have been thought of as being pauls but was actually Tertuis?" THroughout the book of Romans Paul refers to himself and his various exploits. While the authenticity of Romans can be called into question its contents certainly have little to do with anything "Tertius" did.

05-29-2004, 02:36 AM	#7
offa Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Monroeville, Ohio, USA Posts: 440	6. As the Davids were numbered 1, 2, 3, and 4, the corresponding Herods, starting with the crown prince, were called by the original numbers: protos, deuteros, tritos, tetartos. When their positions were taken by others in the Rome province, they were called by the latin equivalents. The names Secundus, Tertius and Quartus are found (A 20:4, Rom 16:22-23). ISBN 0-06-067782-1 p.356

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