Joan of Bark

A question about 1 Peter 2-12.

Different Bibles use different words for Peter's commandment to the recipients of his letter. Here's the passage from the NASB:

The Amplified, KJV (all three), NKJV, ESV, ASV, Darby, HCSB also uses Gentiles. The NIV (all three) uses pagans, the Message reads natives, the NLS unbelieving neighbors, the CEV others, NCV, NIRV, Worldwide English people, YLT the nations, and WNT heathen men.

This translation seems relevant to the debate over whether Jesus' message was meant for Jews only. If the best translation of this Greek word is Gentiles, then this would add weight to this view.

Thoughts ...?

Toto

Check out this thread who where the heathens?

Joan of Bark

Thanks, Toto, now I have a headache.

mountainman

NT Gentiles = NT Heathens = NT Pagans = Empire natives = Greeks = Hellenic civilisation

DCHindley

Wiki has this:

The term Gentile (from Latin, gentilis, meaning of or belonging to a clan or tribe) refers to non-Israelite tribes or nations in English translations of the Bible, most notably the King James Version.

It serves as the Latin and subsequently English translation of the Hebrew words גוי (goy) and נכרי (nokhri) in the Old Testament and the Greek word ἔθνη (éthnē) in the New Testament. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentile

Jews from old acknowledged that there are many "nations" around, but believed that God chose them as his special or favored nation. In the OT it has a meaning something like "those other nations".

In the NT it means something like "all nations" as they came to believe that the favor of God has now been extended to all nations, not just the Jewish one, on account of the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Those translations that use "heathen" and "pagan" are by Christian sects who believe that Christianity has superceded the Jews as the chosen ones of god, but also want to imply that God disfavors all but the "Christian" nation.

DCH

Joan of Bark

So which translation do you believe to be more accurate? If it is Gentiles, I take that to mean that Peter was implying that the "Christians" were all Jews (or are you saying that the word had changed in meaning, therefore this is an outdated reading?). If "heathen" or "pagan" is more accurate, then there were probably non-Jews already in this new sect of Christianity.

andrewcriddle

I think that passages like 1 Peter 4 3-4 (about not behaving like Gentiles any more) imply that some of the recipients of the letter are to be regarded as ex-Gentiles ie non-Jews who have become Christians.

Andrew Criddle

Joan of Bark

Maybe, Andrew, but the NIV version uses the word pagans, not Gentiles, therefore still leaving the question open.

andrewcriddle

Whether you render ethnos as Pagans or Gentiles, surely ex-Pagan would mean the same as ex-Gentile ie a non-Jew who has become a Christian.

Andrew Criddle

Joan of Bark

Maybe I'm missing something, but verse 3 doesn't necessarily indicate to me that it must refer to an ex-anything. Couldn't you also interpret it as Peter chiding Jews for behaving like pagans / Gentiles?