Mageth

But he supposedly created us. There was no "our sake" until he did; thinks that do not exist have no "sake". So at some point he had to "want" for his own sake, as there was no "our sake".

reprise

The discussion seems to be drifting off-topic here. If there's enough interest in discussing the sub-themes which have come up, can you please start a new thread for that purpose - this thread is now way too long for it too be practical for us to do a split and I don't want to lock it due to the off-topic discussion is there's still enough interest in the original topic for it to continue in a productive fashion.

Mageth

D'oh. Hit the quote instead of the edit. Please delete.

Magus55

He wants you to have the option to not be with Him if you so choose.

Magus55

Not true. God can want to create us, in order to share His love and glory with us. God knows who He is, and wants to share it with others, so He creates us, for the benefit of knowing His love and glory.

Mageth

That's the sugar-coated way of saying "He'll relegate you to hell if you don't choose him."

Modern Christians just can't handle the truth...

Mageth

Well, you say what I said is not true, yet you agreed with me. That is for his own sake. He had to want to create us before we existed, so it could not have been for our sake, as we did not yet exist.

Yet he lectures us about vanity and pride?

"God, why did you create us?"

"Why, so you could look at me, and appeciate my glory, and all my fine love!"

("Oh, and Gabriel, close that window to Hell. I don't want the locals to see those that "chose" to go to Hell. I love them too, but it just had to be done.")

Dean Anderson

Well, since reprise's warning to stay on topic - which she posted less than an hour ago - is already being ignored, I'm locking this meandering mess of a thread.