Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Overkill · 05-05-2006, 02:50 PM

Oops, the 4 million is for Lebanon itself. Still, 100,000 people is hardly "utterly destroyed".

Johnny Skeptic · 05-05-2006, 08:35 PM

Historically, kingdoms rising and falling has been the rule, not the exception, so why do fundamentalist Christians find the partial destruction of Tyre, or any other city for that matter, to be in any way unusual? It is suspicious that although Ezekiel called Nebuchadnezzar a king of kings, there is no evidence that this king of kings defeated the mainland settlement in the manner that Ezekiel described. It is also suspicious that when Alexander finally conquered the island settlement, the Tyrians against whom the prophecy was originally spoken had been dead for centuries, many of whom died from natural causes and were not taken into slavery.

Richbee · 05-06-2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Historically, kingdoms rising and falling has been the rule, not the exception, so why do fundamentalist Christians find the partial destruction of Tyre, or any other city for that matter, to be in any way unusual? It is suspicious that although Ezekiel called Nebuchadnezzar a king of kings, there is no evidence that this king of kings defeated the mainland settlement in the manner that Ezekiel described. It is also suspicious that when Alexander finally conquered the island settlement, the Tyrians against whom the prophecy was originally spoken had been dead for centuries, many of whom died from natural causes and were not taken into slavery.

So what? So why be obsessed with Ezekiel's prophesy, and it was more than one about a City and the physical structures. It was a prophesy against the King, Kingdom and the people - the trade and commerce, and their gods.

Richbee · 05-06-2006, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Historically, kingdoms rising and falling has been the rule, not the exception, so why do fundamentalist Christians find the partial destruction of Tyre, or any other city for that matter, to be in any way unusual? It is suspicious that although Ezekiel called Nebuchadnezzar a king of kings, there is no evidence that this king of kings defeated the mainland settlement in the manner that Ezekiel described. It is also suspicious that when Alexander finally conquered the island settlement, the Tyrians against whom the prophecy was originally spoken had been dead for centuries, many of whom died from natural causes and were not taken into slavery.

So what? So why be obsessed with Ezekiel's prophesy, and it was more than one about a City and the physical structures. It was a prophesy against the King, Kingdom and the people - the trade and commerce, and their gods.

Johnny, have you ever produced any hard evidence about the Tyre during Ezekiel's day? I find it fascinating all the imaginations about two Tyre's?

I view one Kingdom of Tyre and one city, with one King.

Richbee · 05-06-2006, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overkill

Woah, woah, woah, Richbee. Tyre, Lebanon is in your words a tiny little backwater with only a few Arabs in it? It has nearly 4 million people in it! Those are not the numbers of a tiny little backwater. Having nearly 4 million people doesn't mean utterly destroyed. Sure, the mainland was destroyed but the prophesy doesn't state the mainland of Tyre would be destroyed and made no more. It says the whole of Tyre.

Why don't you conduct a census of Tyre! Get back to us when you get your facts straight!

Amaleq13 · 05-06-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richbee

So why be obsessed with Ezekiel's prophesy...

It is less a matter of obsession with the prophecy, than a fascination with the inability and/or unwillingness of certain apologetic exegetes to accept the blatant failure of the prediction that the continuing existence of Tyre conclusively establishes.

Richbee · 05-06-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farrell Till

Well, let's just assume that this is so and that old Tyre is located either under the rubble of Greeks and Romans or under water. If so, the prophecy failed, because Ezekiel had prophesied that Nebuchadnezzar would make Tyre like a "bare rock" and that it would be "built no more" (26:14). If, however, it now sits under Grecian and Roman rubble, the prophecy failed, because those Grecian and Roman ruins would have been built after Ezekiel prophesied that Tyre would be made a "bare rock." Furthermore, if it is under water, it wouldn't be a bare rock or a "place for spreading of net."

But, that wasn't Tyre, built by Tyrians was it?

When the Greeks ruled, or the Romans, it meant that the Tyrians were slaves or worse, dead.

Quote:

Either way you lose, Richbee, but the fact is, as shown by numerous photographs that have been published here, including some of your own, the site of ancient Tyre is now occupied by a sprawling city. There is a section in a travel article about Lebanon http://www.anytravels.com/middle_east/lebanon, which disputes everything that Richbee has been saying about modern Tyre's position in Lebanese society.

So, you're still trying to foist the "glory of Tyre" rebuilt? By who, the Tyrian people?

Not even the ruins of Tyre remain, just Greek or Roman colonies or later!

Amaleq13 · 05-06-2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richbee

Why don't you conduct a census of Tyre!

If the prophecy had been fulfilled, a census would be impossible because Tyre would not be inhabited.

Richbee · 05-06-2006, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farrell Till

Everyone can see that Richbee is trying to save face, but if this is a picture of a market in modern Tyre, which sits on the location of ancient Tyre, it is evidence that Ezekiel's prophecy failed. Or does Richbee still not understand the meanings of desolate, not inhabited, and forever?

Go fishing in Trye, and suffer in your "glory", that was formerly Tyre - one of the greatest wonders of the ancient World!

How do you like them fish merchants?

Richbee · 05-06-2006, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

If the prophecy had been fulfilled, a census would be impossible because Tyre would not be inhabited.

IMO, the Kingdom of Tyre was ended by the Babylonians, and the people of Tyre ceased to exist after Alexander the Great.

Farrell Till attempts to claim that many Tyrians survived the Greek conquest, but of course, they were nothing more than slaves or subjects of the Greeks.

After Tyre was defeated, Alexandria, Eygpt took over was the dominate Port city.

The Glory of Tyre, their wealth, their power was gone forever.

05-05-2006, 08:35 PM	#212
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	Farrell Till embarrasses prophecy buffs Historically, kingdoms rising and falling has been the rule, not the exception, so why do fundamentalist Christians find the partial destruction of Tyre, or any other city for that matter, to be in any way unusual? It is suspicious that although Ezekiel called Nebuchadnezzar a king of kings, there is no evidence that this king of kings defeated the mainland settlement in the manner that Ezekiel described. It is also suspicious that when Alexander finally conquered the island settlement, the Tyrians against whom the prophecy was originally spoken had been dead for centuries, many of whom died from natural causes and were not taken into slavery.

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05-05-2006, 02:50 PM	#211
Overkill Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,877	Oops, the 4 million is for Lebanon itself. Still, 100,000 people is hardly "utterly destroyed".

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