Sheshbazzar

I had intended my statement only to be in reference to the books of the OT, "the earliest,....etc."
and I agree with you to a degree, that large portions of the NT texts are fictional.
It is my belief that the early church "cooked the books" over, and over, repeatedly, in attempts to doctor the text to give support to the theology of the orthodoxy, countering and quelling every "heresy", by re-writing the text so as to give a "scriptural" -"proof text"- supportive of their positions.
This still goes on today to a lesser degree, evidenced by a multitude of English translations, each of which, have their own little "alterations" within the text to conform it to a denominations particular sectarian viewpoint.

Also, to expand the appeal of the gospel's the among gentiles, Greco-Roman mythological imagery was appropriated, adapted and incorporated into the text, to provide a "something-for-everyone" theology, to appeal to the broadest spectrum of humanity.
There may have at the beginning, existed a single much simpler text, but outside of the actual discovery of such an authentic ancient document, it is well nigh impossible to determine which passages in the gospels, if any, remain from that original composition.

This is my present view on the NT, and the first time that I have attempted putting it into writing. pardon me if I missed a few items here.

Steve Weiss

Yep, fiction the bible is, for which millions have died unnecessarily. What many "know" to be true just ain't so. And why do you think that something as obvious as this is evaded by the majority of X-tians?

Sheshbazzar

Well mankind being what mankind is, I believe that millions would have died unnecessarily anyway, we would have just found a different excuse to hate and massacre one another, I mean wars were around for a long, long time before the Jews or the X-tians ever came on the scene.
No Jews and no X-tians, and history would be far different, but no less bloody, perhaps even worse.

I enjoy my life, and all of the liberties and freedoms that I have been heir to. Sure, the world has went through hell to get us to this point, (and in some places still is) But I for one, certainly wouldn't exchange my little "heaven on earth" here, just for a different history, with an unknown and unpredictable present.
The old proverb, better the devil that is known.
I am an optimistic person by nature, and consider the world that we live in, for all of its faults, to be a wonderful place, and that we are fortunate to live in this age with all of these advantages.
Here I am, in peace and security, under no threats nor domination, I set here tonight, after enjoying a nice hot shower, in my warm living room, typing on here and enjoying all of the fruits of human progress and technology.
Perhaps in a different "world", I would tonight be cowering under some rock, cold and miserable, listening to the baying of the hounds of the Social Atheist Militia as they hunted down all non-conformists for elimination.

I have a lot of X-tian friends and relatives, most are simply trying to live the best life that they know how, they are not -all- ignorant about the contradictions that exist within the Bible, and no doubt many of them do wish that their Holy Book did not contain all of those embarrassing passages that present their god in such an unflattering, but wholly human way. Some of them don't even actually believe the Bible, or in JC !
But they hang in there anyway, for family and community, still finding it enjoyable to come together to sing praises, and to counsel and comfort one another in facing life's trials.
My perception is, that most "evade" it because their custom and practice adds stability and self-assurance to their lives, an anchoring post for establishing their self-identity and self-esteem.
They evade confronting the facts of their religion, because they cannot find nor recognise any alternatives that would provide all of those comforts that they derive from their faith.
Thus when they perceive their faith to be under attack, they become defensive,
The delusion being less painful than reality.
push hard enough, and they go on the offensive.
Then the danger of religious extremism begins to bear its evil fruit.

Steve Weiss

Your points are well-taken. You have illustrated the sham, rationalization, justification and superficiality of religion better than I could. It is the form with no substance, a myth and a delusion which exists for the psychological comfort of its hypocritical practioners. This charade is maintained for social purposes so that people can pretend that their myths and afterlife expectations are real. The whole enterprise is fundamentally dishonest and manipulative and is perpetuated just to keep up appearances.

The alternative that you see as lacking is called "reality" and truth for those who have integrity enough to accept it. What is needed is some people with courage, the kind of courage that a child has when he declares that the Emperor has no clothes.

Sheshbazzar

Whoa there! you are drawing a lot of unwarranted conclusions about the motivations and intentions of individuals, when you attempt to paint too large of segments of humanity with an overly large brush.
There are those who have, and do put their heart and soul into their faith. Some, having suffered through some life trauma that caused them to honestly look for answers, and the reasons, for why life is the way it is, and within the Holy Scriptures they have found some of the answers, (when I say "Holy Scriptures", I refer to all of mans religious Holy Writings, not limited to only the Judaeo-Christian texts)
You are wrong to characterise those individuals sincerely searching for true undestanding and enlightement, as fundmentaly dishonest and manipulative, these are they whose yearning for wisdom is so strong that they have no care at all for keeping up any appearances, but whose only desire is to be doing the "right" thing.

Ah, but Steve, that is the crux of the matter from the beginning, what IS Reality? and what IS Truth?
Was not "Reality" there from the beginning? What formed, sustains, and controls this space/time/reality continum in which we live and move and have our being?
If we "are", why "are" we?
If there IS an IS, what is IS?
"Yod Heh Yod" and K' sirah-sirah

Steve Weiss

Many may find solace in drugs of various sorts, but the issue that caused the trauma remains to be dealt with. Religion is counter-indicated because it is a series of ever bigger lies. Those who rely upon lies delude themselves. You may value and advocate escapist delusions because they make one feel good, but that is hardly the point.

There is no answer to why we as individuals exist. That's an invalid question. There is no cosmic purpose either. If you want to know why you are here, I suggest a heart to heart with your parents concerning reproduction. If you are referring to homo sapiens sapiens as a species, the answer is evolution.

Fortuna

AS far as I am concerned, we have beed talking about literature here. In this case the OP asks what was the intended purpose of one particular element of the story in question.

It seems that many want to stress that this story is in the genre of fiction. To that I would reply both yes and No. Yes, it is a type of fiction, but it looks for me to be more specifically in the sub-genre of fable or mythology.

But of course, the answer is more complex than that. Let us consider the American fable of George Washington and the cherry tree. Certainly this is most likely a fable made up by later writers and admirers of Washington. But, it is a fable that is set in a historical time and place and which uses a historical figure.

Our story is of this same type, but perhaps not completely. I think we all can agree that GMark (and the synoptics) is set in a historic time and locale. There is disagreement if the story is using a historical figure (the whole HJ/MJ controversy). It could be even more complex that that. The main character in this case could also be a composite character, one who has attributes that resemble histoical figures, or perhaps has attributes that resemble other fictional characters.

But are these issues relevant to the question ? I don;t think so.The question is, what was the author trying to show or allude to by having his main character walking upon the water ?

The merit of religion or religious indoctrination is not at all relevant to the question and is certainly not an answer to it.

FatherMithras

What a ridiculously silly thread this is. Worst OP ever.

jakejonesiv

Mark 6:48-50 pictures Jesus as a panic inducing revenant. The point of the author is that Jesus is no normal man. He is thought to be a phantom (gk) by the disciples. Think of Jesus as an Old Testament Theophany, and you will come close to the concept. He is about his mysterious business heedless of earthly concerns, he meant to pass them by, as does the Lord in the theophanies of Exodus 34:6 and 1 Kings 19:11.

Mark 6:48-50 passage is linquistically similar to Psalm 107:23-24 LXX (Psalm 106 in Hebrew).

oi katabainontev eiv thn qalassan en ploioiv poiountev ergasian en udasi polloiv
autoi eidosan ta erga kuriou kai ta qaumasia autou en tw buqw

"Those who go down to the sea in ships, Who do business on great waters;
They have seen the works of the LORD, And His wonders in the deep."

And, as the disciples in Mark, we see that, in v. 28 "Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble, And He brought them out of their distresses." kai ekekracan prov kurion en tw qlibesqai autouv kai ek twn anagkwn autwn echgagen autouv

Jesus is an extended Theophany; this has an impact on the question of his historicity. In Genesis 18:1-15 and 32:23-33 God visits the earth in human form, and cannot be distinguished from a human man through any visual clues. These Theophanies have God appearing on earth in an apparrent human body, presumably in history, presumably on earth. This reveals the often invoked arguments that are made by HJ proponents to be hollow shells. And does anyone (Gamera? Ben?) doubt that God is believed to go back to heaven afterwards?

Jake Jones IV

Sheshbazzar

Perhaps, but the quantity of posts seems to indicate that some here are enjoying debate on the subject, I know I for one, have profited by Fortuna's input.
There are hundreds of other threads available to you if you are not enjoying this one.