Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 05-04-2011, 07:04 PM

Quote:

In short, like so many objects before them, the lead codices seem to be fakes of a kind that goes back to the earliest days of organized Christianity. At least ten different churches and monasteries from Egypt to England have claimed to have the head of John the Baptist, and at least four others claim to possess his hands. Forgeries based on a smattering of scholarship and a great deal of artistic license have also dogged the field of biblical archeology for over a century. The real question is why they still attract the avid attention of the press, laypeople, and even some scholars.

One answer has to do with the degree to which Christianity remains tied to revelation and miracle. Actual or implied encounters with the divine in the physical world are inherent in many facets of Christianity, including not only relics but sacred ritual, sacred music, and sacred buildings. The fact that the possibility of revelation has been systematically purged in some denominations of modern Christianity makes the interest shown by the British all the more remarkable: testimony to the deep-seated and utterly human desire for personal experience of the numinous.

Curiously, or perhaps not so curiously, Jews seem relatively immune to this impulse. As it happens, the story of the lead codices first broke in London's Jewish Chronicle. It appears that the "scholar of ancient religious archeology" had approached a metallurgist, a member of a London synagogue who had previously written about the Copper Scroll. In the latter's opinion, the codices were "Kabbalah-related, and the nature of the content indicate[d] a magical incantation style of writing." Yet neither this nor the possibility of a more ancient provenance appeared to excite the interest of the paper's readers.

This is not only a matter of Jews being more thoroughly secularized. . . . . Rather, the essence of God's message to the Jewish people resides, and is to be sought, in the text.

Toto · 05-05-2011, 01:05 PM

What happened to lead codices?

Quote:

.... After detecting religious symbols on the texts and a metallurgy report dating the books to the early 1st century AD, the books went from a probable hoax to potential treasure-trove, says David Elkington, author and member of the British team. "I fundamentally believe that what we have are the earliest-ever Christian documents."

Mr. Elkington says the texts' supposed origin – a cave on the eastern bank of the Jordan River where early Christians are believed to have sought refuge from Roman persecution – added weight to the theory that the codices may shed light on the birth of Christianity.

He's not giving up.

mountainman · 05-05-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

He's not giving up.

He's not getting off a media roller coa$ter.

Toto · 05-16-2011, 10:02 AM

Tom Verenna, who took the lead in writing the wikipedia entry on the lead codices, has published an article on Bible and Interpretation on the media aspects of the story: Artifacts and the Media: Lead Codices and the Public Portrayal of History

stephan huller · 05-16-2011, 10:52 AM

Yes Toto, it is an interesting article especially the conclusion where Verenna cites your pal James McGrath to support the important role of biblioblogging community:

Quote:

After examining the almost immediate response to the codices by Biblioblogs, one is confronted with the value of a form of media, which is not peer reviewed or looked over by an editor, which can bring about correct historical information to a large audience quickly. Perhaps blogging isn’t enough; but it is something.

I already came to the same conclusion myself with respect to a lot of the renewed interest in the 'Secret Mark' business. I don't know if one blogger can make a difference. I'd actually say that it isn't 'biblioblogging' but discussion boards like this one too.

I think that it is a good thing when people are exposed to as much information as possible. The media generally cherry picks from the top and the bottom to arrive at the middle. In the case of things related to the bible they would take a noted professor and a preacher and come to some conclusion based on the idea that the truth is somewhere between these two poles. The reality is of course that the truth is multi-dimensional. Having as many points of view as possible is always a good thing.

Toto · 05-18-2011, 12:31 PM

Another journalist who hasn't gotten the message: Revelations of our own Indiana Jones

A somewhat uncritical story. Elkington now believes that the script is paleo-Hebrew, not used after 70 CE, so these codices are definitely from the time of Jesus and will reveal the true story . . .

Quote:

The couple will publish their account of the battle to unlock the codices' secrets in the book The Divine Revelation

Toto · 06-15-2011, 08:05 AM

The government of Jordan still has hopes of making a killing:

Tests support 'Jordan texts' authenticity

Quote:

According to the Department of Antiquities (DoA), initial carbon tests to determine the authenticity of lead-sealed metal books billed as the greatest find in biblical archaeology since the Dead Sea scrolls have been “encouraging”.

“We really believe that we have evidence from this analysis to prove that these materials are authentic,” DoA Director Ziad Saad told The Jordan Times.

The tests, carried out at the Royal Scientific Society labs, indicate that the texts may date back to the early first century AD, at a time when Christians took refuge from persecution on the east bank of the Jordan River.

Toto · 06-16-2011, 10:16 AM

Bloggers raise the obvious problem of how Carbon 14 dating can be applied to lead.

Paleojudaica for June 15 -FAKE METAL CODICES WATCH

Tom Verenna - Just When You Thought It Was Over

Lead Codex Hoax again

DCHindley · 06-16-2011, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Bloggers raise the obvious problem of how Carbon 14 dating can be applied to lead.

Paleojudaica for June 15 -FAKE METAL CODICES WATCH

Tom Verenna - Just When You Thought It Was Over

Lead Codex Hoax again

It can't be applied to lead. But didn't the initial reports say something about some artifacts other than the codices, maybe a scroll or a wood object, being found with them? From the very beginning, whoever has been leaking this info has done so with seemingly intentional vagueness and mixing of facts (such as referring to a radiocarbon test for an organic object but relating it to the metal codices).

When I first heard about additional undescribed object(s) found with the codices, I thought, "these seem like something from the 1st or 2nd century that could be used to 'authenticate' fake items associated with them."

DCH

DCHindley · 06-16-2011, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCHindley

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Bloggers raise the obvious problem of how Carbon 14 dating can be applied to lead.

Paleojudaica for June 15 -FAKE METAL CODICES WATCH

Tom Verenna - Just When You Thought It Was Over

Lead Codex Hoax again

It can't be applied to lead. But didn't the initial reports say something about some artifacts other than the codices, maybe a scroll or a wood object, being found with them? From the very beginning, whoever has been leaking this info has done so with seemingly intentional vagueness and mixing of facts (such as referring to a radiocarbon test for an organic object but relating it to the metal codices).

When I first heard about additional undescribed object(s) found with the codices, I thought, "these seem like something from the 1st or 2nd century that could be used to 'authenticate' fake items associated with them."

DCH

OK, here is a citation from the Wikipedia page on the codices:

Elkington stated [in this press release] that the find was of "up to 70 ring-bound books (codices) made of lead and copper. Many of them are sealed on all sides. Scrolls, tablets and other artifacts, including an incense bowl, were also found at the same site.

Maybe they were supposed to have tested samples of one or more of those "scrolls, [wood?] tablets" and/or soot from that "incense bowl." I believe what he calls an "incense bowl' is essentially a lamp. Interesting thing about lamps, is that there are a lot of them out there which can be dated within a century by their style of manufacture. IIRC, one of these distinctive styles for lamps came into vogue in the region right around the beginning of the 2nd century. How convenient ...

DCH

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05-16-2011, 10:02 AM	#164
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Tom Verenna, who took the lead in writing the wikipedia entry on the lead codices, has published an article on Bible and Interpretation on the media aspects of the story: Artifacts and the Media: Lead Codices and the Public Portrayal of History

06-16-2011, 10:16 AM	#168
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Bloggers raise the obvious problem of how Carbon 14 dating can be applied to lead. Paleojudaica for June 15 -FAKE METAL CODICES WATCH Tom Verenna - Just When You Thought It Was Over Lead Codex Hoax again

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