crazyfingers

Pascal's Wager is not especially persuasive given that I have no doubt that Christianity is utterly false. However I suggest that you, as a god believer, should fear that Islam may be correct and that you have hitched your wagon to the wrong horse.

Rhaedas

Gah, you didn't invoke Pascal's wager...sigh.

What if it isn't your god, but a god that judges based on some other laws? What if such a god prefers a moral atheist over a hypocritical, blindly following the scripture christian? What if...well, it could go on and on. See, for Pascal's wager to be logically correct in reality, you have to be sure that there's only two choices. I'm sure you think there is, but other religious, numerous ones, would disagree.

And IMO an all-knowing god wouldn't take kindly to a faith based on self-preservation, which is really what Pascal's wager boils down to.

On the other hand, how can I respect a god who would condemn an atheist that acts very christian-like in morality (the good parts of the bible, not necessarily all the laws), and yet rewards a believer in faith who has broken many of the moral laws?

* and given past posts on this thread, I must note that such is a hypothetical for this discussion only, since I lack belief that such a danger exists in the first place, based on the evidence.

Faith

I don't think God would take kindly to faith based on self-preservation and playing the odds.

I believe God's grace is unending and His love undying. Understanding this, living a Christ-like existence and abandoning one's love of self...this is what it takes to be saved. Simply convincing yourself to believe "the lesser of two evils" to avoid hell won't do it.

Starboy

Yup, god must only be in your head, cause it does what you tell it to.

Starboy

Javaman

That's all well and good but, I ask you again, why don't Christians even try to follow The Law? It is spelled out quite clearly but they choose not to. I'm willing to bet that you don't adhere to the Mosaic and Levitican laws as handed down from your god. Given your statement above, why not?

Javaman

In a way, you and I are on similar pages here. I will continue to live as good a life as I can. I will work hard, be kind to others, love my family, and take care of those in need regardless of their beliefs. If a supreme being that rules an afterlife condemns otherwise good people to eternal torment because of a lack of belief, I call that theoretical being evil.

Remember, the Christian god is portrayed as knowing my innermost thoughts. If I have free will and he knows the logic of my choice and still condemns me, that is wrong.

If he knows the evidence I require to change my ways (and he should if he knows my mind) and yet witholds it, what kind of being is that?

Faith

God does know your heart. Living a good life and loving others is part of Jesus' message and certainly shouldn't be discounted.

But God says the evidence of His existence is written on our hearts and in our minds. He says you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart.

Good deeds or no, you must have faith and you must want to find Him to be saved.

Javaman

Faith,

I can no more force myself to believe in the God of the Christians than I could make myself believe in Vishnu or Thor or leprechauns or fairies. Your holy book is one among many. I've read it and others. I know the stories. Your god, should he exist, favors blind trust over reason. How can your book be judged more truthful than every other deity tome?

Javaman

I suppose you're also saying your god cares not if his creations are good, only obedient.

Good non-believers get hell?

Bad believers get heaven as long as they say they're sorry and really love Jesus?

Valdemar

False. Been there, done that. This is not directed at you, but that is just another lie of your religion.