Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Duke Leto · 07-18-2012, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCHindley

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke Leto

Hegesippus is supposedly non-extant.

You are thinking of the 2nd century writer Hegesippus who had also written five books of Recollections, which may have attempted to place early Christian figures in the context of Josephus' War and Antiquities. You are correct that this has perished except for citations in Church fathers.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Stephan means both of them. He thinks they're the same author. Almost his entire argument is based on quotations of the earlier Hegesippus in Clement and Epiphanus. Since Clement attributes the quote to Josephus that proves in Stephan's untidy little mind that Josephus is Hegesippus and the parts of Hasmonean and Herodean history that offend him can be re-written as he sees fit.

Duke Leto · 07-18-2012, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Once that is secured, the admission of 'synergoi' working on at least some of the Josephan corpus becomes an ominous development. Was this Josephus 'confessing' to their existence or - as I and many others would suppose - the second,. third or fourth century redactor of the mateiral attempting to put these words in Josephus's mouth to justify the newly created forgery?

Who are these people? It'd be interesting to see the question and answer session where Dr. Cohen and a bevy of other experts in the area lay into you if you could actually get to a present a paper on this at an academic conference.

What you've laid out in this thread pretty much amounts to a conspiracy theory. A shadowy cabal of unknown persons for reasons you refuse to adequately explain are pulling the wool over the eyes of the credulous sheeple.

stephan huller · 07-18-2012, 06:21 PM

Have you actually read Leemings translation yet? It is done side by side with the familiar Greek.

stephan huller · 07-18-2012, 06:23 PM

Are you asking me who in scholarship had suggested the synergoi might have written after Josephus's death or without his permission?

stephan huller · 07-18-2012, 06:27 PM

Thackeray for one argues for a second century dating for Antiquities. Is there a magic number to get you to admit you don't know wtf you are talking about

Duke Leto · 07-18-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Are you asking me who in scholarship had suggested the synergoi might have written after Josephus's death or without his permission?

That would be a good start, but then a list of people who accept the idea as proven apart from you would be good. And these would need to be actual people not just different anonymous user names you create to comment on your own blog.

stephan huller · 07-18-2012, 06:38 PM

The other thing to remember also is that most everyone ignores Clement's clear reference of 'Flavius Josephus' having written a 'History of the Jews' in the second century. Whether or not you or anyone 'agrees' with the hypothesis there is enough between Cohen's theory and Thackeray's established positions to put forward this explanation. It is not nearly as ridiculous as assuming that Clement references 147 CE in the middle of his discussion of 'Flavius Josephus' and his 'History of the Jews' because it was the year Clement was born. That was your childish interpretation which is a non-starter as there is no room for self-reference in the section.

stephan huller · 07-18-2012, 06:39 PM

Quote:

user names you create to comment on your own blog.

Pardon me. Are you fucking crazy? First of all I rarely have comments at my blog and those that appear there are from people you can follow back to their place of origin.

stephan huller · 07-18-2012, 06:42 PM

Here is the summary from the Google analytics page at this very minute:

Pageviews today
9
Pageviews yesterday
258
Pageviews last month
10,085
Pageviews all time history
340,935
Don't track your own pageviews

stephan huller · 07-18-2012, 06:45 PM

Here is the breakdown by place of origin:

United States
159
Germany
30
United Kingdom
20
Sweden
10
Portugal
7
Poland
4
Canada
2
China
2
Greece
2
Croatia
2

I don't think it lists places where only a single visitor comes from that place

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07-18-2012, 06:21 PM	#223
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Have you actually read Leemings translation yet? It is done side by side with the familiar Greek.

07-18-2012, 06:23 PM	#224
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Are you asking me who in scholarship had suggested the synergoi might have written after Josephus's death or without his permission?

07-18-2012, 06:27 PM	#225
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Thackeray for one argues for a second century dating for Antiquities. Is there a magic number to get you to admit you don't know wtf you are talking about

07-18-2012, 06:38 PM	#227
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	The other thing to remember also is that most everyone ignores Clement's clear reference of 'Flavius Josephus' having written a 'History of the Jews' in the second century. Whether or not you or anyone 'agrees' with the hypothesis there is enough between Cohen's theory and Thackeray's established positions to put forward this explanation. It is not nearly as ridiculous as assuming that Clement references 147 CE in the middle of his discussion of 'Flavius Josephus' and his 'History of the Jews' because it was the year Clement was born. That was your childish interpretation which is a non-starter as there is no room for self-reference in the section.

07-18-2012, 06:42 PM	#229
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Here is the summary from the Google analytics page at this very minute: Pageviews today 9 Pageviews yesterday 258 Pageviews last month 10,085 Pageviews all time history 340,935 Don't track your own pageviews

07-18-2012, 06:45 PM	#230
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Here is the breakdown by place of origin: United States 159 Germany 30 United Kingdom 20 Sweden 10 Portugal 7 Poland 4 Canada 2 China 2 Greece 2 Croatia 2 I don't think it lists places where only a single visitor comes from that place

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