Qiwi

If we want to know why Jesus was killed, we have to ask why a Jew from Galilee in those times might meet his end on a Roman cross.
Many Jews from Galilee died in the same way during this period. Judas of Galilee was a Jewish patriot who led an armed rebellion against the Romans. Many hundreds of his supporters were crucified by the Romans.
At one time, while Jesus was a boy, four thousand Jews were crucified by the Romans for an insurrection against Roman taxes, crucifixion being the cruel form of execution which the Romans used for rebels against their rule.

Galilee was always a centre of rebellion, partly because it was not under direct Roman rule and, therefore, like Vichy France during the Last World War, gave some scope for the organizatrion of resistance.
The presumption is , therefore, that Jesus the Galilean who died on the cross did so for the same reason as the others: because he was a threat to the Roman occupation.
The Gospels indeed tell us that this was the charge made against him. The actual charge, according to Luke was as follows:
'We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.'
To 'pervert the nation' meant to disturb them from their allegiance to Rome.

The reason for Jesus' crucifixion, then, was simply that he was a 'rebel' against Rome. He was not framed on a political charge by the Jews; rather it was the Jews who were framed by the Gospels, whose concern was to shift the blame for the crucifixion from the Romans (and their Jewish henchmen, the High Priest and his entourage) to the Jews and their religion.

Diogenes the Cynic

Why weren't Jesus' followers cucified with him?

spin

Why was Jesus Crucified?

This assumes that there was a Jesus for there to have been such an opportunity. Perhaps one needs to establish that there was a Jesus before one can ask if he were crucified.

It's a bit like me asking you: "why do you beat your children?" The question makes some sort of sense, but it assumes that you have children and that you beat them.

Don't ask questions which assume things your interlocutor doesn't accept. You don't communicate anything in doing so.


spin

JGL53

Why was jesus crucified?

He forgot the safe word.

Qiwi

I can only assume it was because Jesus was not calling for an armed insurrection but rather a form of non-violent passive resistance along the lines of what Mahatma Gandhi called for against the British..... maybe the suggested refusal to pay taxes to the Romans never got any further than the idea stage in which case his followers would not have broken any laws.... or perhaps the Romans felt if they simply removed the instigator the problem would go away.... I really dont know.... :huh:

Qiwi

If we are talking about the mythological 'Jesus' who was born of a virgin, could walk on water and raise the dead then of course I'm with you Spin.... :thumbs:
However if we are talking about a 1st century 'philosopher' who argued against the mindless fundamentalists of his day then that is a different kettle of fish....
The Gospel of Thomas is what swung it for me... you just cant make up stuff like that.....

rlogan

So we just make stuff up? Ignore what the text purports about Jesus telling to render unto ceasar that which is his?

What happens to Jesus is dictated by an amalgm of Hebrew Bible quote-mining and ancient ideas about sacrifice and atonement. The whole passion/resurrection sequence is largely out of Psalms and Isaiah.

Have you ever wondered how Jesus could have "fulfilled" all of these pseudo-prophecies? Instead of being evidence that he is the Messiah, it is the very evidence we need to see where the story came from.

The "trial" could not be more absurd, so you are at least looking for an alternate explanation. Just need to look a little further, Qiwi.

spin

Let me ask you, how you know anything about this 'philosopher'? Isn't it just the same as you know about the other one, ie you don't know? One or the other may have existed, maybe neither. Your question still has a basic epistemological problem: how do you know. I don't think you can resolve the question easily.


spin

rlogan

welcome, by the way.

Check this out here Qiwi. A dose of Doherty is being prescribed:

http://www.jesuspuzzle.com/

Myth first, followed by a flesh and blood retro-"history".


I like GThomas too. The Kingdom of God is at hand. None of that superman B.S.


Why not view GThomas as a collection of sayings like proverbs as opposed to granting the sole credit to an obscure figure?

For sure there were scads of itinerant preachers. The problem isn't finding one. The problem is the one that was canonized never existed.

Qiwi

I guess I should explain at this point that the opening post is not a result of my own research. It is abridged from a book by Hyam Maccoby called 'The Mythmaker'...
I guess the point I was trying to make, somewhat obscurely, is that the New Testament is essentially an anti-semitic tract....
and clearly that aspect of it has appealed to a certain type of person throughout history.......
e.g.
"My feeling as a Christian points to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter.... In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in his might and seized the scourge to drive out of the temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognise more profoundly than ever before that it was for this that it he had to shed his blood on the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."
Adolf Hitler
speech, April 12 1922, published in "New Order"

Dont you just love the last bit... "I have a duty to be a fighter for truth and justice"
I expect in Adolf's mind Jesus was not actually a Jew at all...