Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 08-06-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross ruined John’s career.

The book was the culmination of twenty years’ study, for it grew out of everything he had learned about the development of Semitic and proto-Semitic languages. He meant it to launch his name upon history as a world thinker. He hoped it would illuminate the origins of thought and language, so that people could better understand where they came from, shed the trappings of religion, and take true responsibility for what they did to each other and their world.

None of this got past the initial shock-waves. The mushroom cloud spread more derision than enlightenment.

Underpinning The Sacred Mushroom is the idea that fertility must be of fundamental importance to primitive religion, as it is to life.
In January 2006, Jan Irvin and Andrew Rutajit published Astrotheology & Shamanism: Unveiling the Law of Duality in Christianity and Other Religions (or via: amazon.co.uk). This book, which is dedicated to John, was the first to make a serious examination of John’s proposals. The book substantiates many of his claims via iconographic and symbolic evidence and brings together years of research and references, many of which have been released since the publication of The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. After 36 years, John’s idea of a Grand Unifying Theory of Religion may be coming to fruition.....

After the publication of The Sacred Mushroom, John was criticized for making up many of his religious concepts, not only of drug use, but of fertility worship. Below is an extensive bibliography of materials used by Irvin and Rutajit in their study, Astrotheology & Shamanism. Many of the references, such as Frazer, Wasson, Graves, Ramsbottom, Rolfe, and many others, were also used by John. Included are references to several excellent books on ancient fertility worship: Inman, Howard, Goldberg, etc. Both Inman and Howard discuss fertility worship in Christianity at length. ...

http://johnallegro.org/main/index.ph..._position=16:4

Is anyone looking at Allegro seriously?

Rick Sumner · 08-06-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Is anyone looking at Allegro seriously?

As in looking at _The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross_ ?

No.

Rick Sumner

David B · 08-06-2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Quote:

The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross ruined John’s career.

The book was the culmination of twenty years’ study, for it grew out of everything he had learned about the development of Semitic and proto-Semitic languages. He meant it to launch his name upon history as a world thinker. He hoped it would illuminate the origins of thought and language, so that people could better understand where they came from, shed the trappings of religion, and take true responsibility for what they did to each other and their world.

None of this got past the initial shock-waves. The mushroom cloud spread more derision than enlightenment.

Underpinning The Sacred Mushroom is the idea that fertility must be of fundamental importance to primitive religion, as it is to life.
In January 2006, Jan Irvin and Andrew Rutajit published Astrotheology & Shamanism: Unveiling the Law of Duality in Christianity and Other Religions (or via: amazon.co.uk). This book, which is dedicated to John, was the first to make a serious examination of John’s proposals. The book substantiates many of his claims via iconographic and symbolic evidence and brings together years of research and references, many of which have been released since the publication of The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. After 36 years, John’s idea of a Grand Unifying Theory of Religion may be coming to fruition.....

After the publication of The Sacred Mushroom, John was criticized for making up many of his religious concepts, not only of drug use, but of fertility worship. Below is an extensive bibliography of materials used by Irvin and Rutajit in their study, Astrotheology & Shamanism. Many of the references, such as Frazer, Wasson, Graves, Ramsbottom, Rolfe, and many others, were also used by John. Included are references to several excellent books on ancient fertility worship: Inman, Howard, Goldberg, etc. Both Inman and Howard discuss fertility worship in Christianity at length. ...

http://johnallegro.org/main/index.ph..._position=16:4

Is anyone looking at Allegro seriously?

It's the best part of 40 years since I came across that book in my local library. I haven't read it since, but I remember finding the ideas contained in it (even though I can't remember exactly what they were) both intriguing and plausible.

It seems pretty clear that many human cultures have had shamanistic religions in which psychedelics have had a role. But there is more to religion than that, IMV. Schizophrenia, the manic stage of bipolarity, experiences engendered by suggestibility/hypnosis and group reinforcement....stuff like that, IMV.

David B

spin · 08-06-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Sumner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Is anyone looking at Allegro seriously?

As in looking at _The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross_ ?

No.

Rick Sumner

To reiterate,

No.

spin

Toto · 08-06-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Below is an extensive bibliography of materials used by Irvin and Rutajit in their study, Astrotheology & Shamanism

Oh my. . .

No academic is taking Allegro seriously at the present time. It would be necessary to tighten up the scholarly standards and weed out all the flakiness to make this a respectable area.

The bibliography here is a mixed bag of scholarship, outdated scholarship, popular culture, conspiracy theories, and occultism. In the midst of all this, there might be the germ of something, but it's not clear where. The sources need to be treated critically.

I mean - what would you think of these as sources?

Castaneda, Carlos, The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge

Crowley, Aleister, The Book of Thoth -

Fomenko, Anatoly T., History: Fiction or Science?

Graves, Kersey, The Worlds Sixteen Crucified Saviors,

Reich, Wilhelm, The Mass Psychology of Fascism

See Richard Carrier's comments here on Kersey Graves:

Quote:

There is great need of new work in this area. There really is a huge gap in modern scholarship here--this is one of the few subjects untouched by the post-WWII historiographical revolution. Most scholars today consider the subject dead, largely for all the wrong reasons. And there is little hope. The subject is stuck in the no-man's-land between history and religious studies, whose methods and academic cultures are so radically different they can barely communicate with each other, much less cooperate on a common project like this.

DCHindley · 08-06-2009, 05:50 PM

I did buy a pristine hardback copy, remaindered, many years ago. Beautiful color photos of Amanita Muscaria mushroom on the dustcover and front page. I just found the idea about drug influence in religion to be interesting.

Reading Allegro's book also prompted me to obtain a copy of Gordon Wasson's Soma: Divine Mushroom of Immortality, which made a good case for considering Amanita Muscaria as the source for Indo-Aryan Haoma/Soma, which was used in the religious observances of Hindu and Avestan religions.

Unfortunately, I felt he went way too far in finding links in names given to people and places in Greek, Latin and Semitic sources to hypothetical ancient Sumerian or Accadian words or constructions. This kind of exposition happens to make up a good half to two thirds of the work!

I have not read Astrotheology & Shamanism but the title suggests that the emphasis is NOT on fertility, but on astrological symbolism and possibly use of drugs by shamans as they tried to ascertain what those astrological phenomenon "mean."

DCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Quote:

The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross ruined John’s career.

The book was the culmination of twenty years’ study, for it grew out of everything he had learned about the development of Semitic and proto-Semitic languages. He meant it to launch his name upon history as a world thinker. He hoped it would illuminate the origins of thought and language, so that people could better understand where they came from, shed the trappings of religion, and take true responsibility for what they did to each other and their world.

None of this got past the initial shock-waves. The mushroom cloud spread more derision than enlightenment.

Underpinning The Sacred Mushroom is the idea that fertility must be of fundamental importance to primitive religion, as it is to life.
In January 2006, Jan Irvin and Andrew Rutajit published Astrotheology & Shamanism: Unveiling the Law of Duality in Christianity and Other Religions (or via: amazon.co.uk). This book, which is dedicated to John, was the first to make a serious examination of John’s proposals. The book substantiates many of his claims via iconographic and symbolic evidence and brings together years of research and references, many of which have been released since the publication of The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. After 36 years, John’s idea of a Grand Unifying Theory of Religion may be coming to fruition.....

After the publication of The Sacred Mushroom, John was criticized for making up many of his religious concepts, not only of drug use, but of fertility worship. Below is an extensive bibliography of materials used by Irvin and Rutajit in their study, Astrotheology & Shamanism. Many of the references, such as Frazer, Wasson, Graves, Ramsbottom, Rolfe, and many others, were also used by John. Included are references to several excellent books on ancient fertility worship: Inman, Howard, Goldberg, etc. Both Inman and Howard discuss fertility worship in Christianity at length. ...

http://johnallegro.org/main/index.ph..._position=16:4

Is anyone looking at Allegro seriously?

God Fearing Atheist · 08-06-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Sumner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Is anyone looking at Allegro seriously?

As in looking at _The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross_ ?

No.

Rick Sumner

"No" from the Sumerian *NUH-OH, meaning "ejaculating penis mushroom vagina."

David B · 08-06-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Fearing Atheist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Sumner

As in looking at _The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross_ ?

No.

Rick Sumner

"No" from the Sumerian *NUH-OH, meaning "ejaculating penis mushroom vagina."

ROFL

Good point well made!

David

Rick Sumner · 08-06-2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Fearing Atheist

"No" from the Sumerian *NUH-OH, meaning "ejaculating penis mushroom vagina."

Ejaculating Penis Mushroom Vaginas are based on Mithras.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Regards,
Dionysius. . .I mean Rick Sumner

DCHindley · 08-06-2009, 09:38 PM

Yes,

"Rick," from Sumerian RI-GA "Seize," with "Sumner," from Summerian ŠEN-NU-ÚR "Womb seed-bag" or possibly ^(gis) ŠENNUR (> Accadian šalluru) "Medlar"? (a tree that produces a fascinating applelike fruit that is open at the bottom end)

Be sure to read my forthcoming book, in which Rick Sumner is unmasked as the forger of John Allegro's book, a brazen forgery that Allegro never noticed due to the lingering effects of drug ingestion. This can be confidently asserted on the basis of clues left in Sumner's nom de plume, which make it incontrovertible that Rick Sumner had once been "arrested" (seized), and what is more, is a medlar tree AND a ... well ... a disparaging term related to "womb seed-bag." [all this is said with tongue very much in cheek]

David (from DUL-DU = "be high") Hindley (from EN "lord" or ÈN "seed" + DAL "door" or DUL-AN-NA "heaven stretch/protection") i.e., High Seed Door or High Lord Protector. About the only thing most would agree on is the term "high" ... (actually, this is how I think norbally)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Sumner

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Fearing Atheist

"No" from the Sumerian *NUH-OH, meaning "ejaculating penis mushroom vagina."

Ejaculating Penis Mushroom Vaginas are based on Mithras.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Regards,
Dionysius. . .I mean Rick Sumner

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