dongiovanni1976x

Paul never met the historical/corporeal Jesus. Clivedurdle, in a seperate thread mentions Romans chapter 1 verse 3-4, "3 the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God with power according to the spirit of holiness by resurrection from the dead." (NRSV)

"Clive stated, "I don't want to discuss the second part of the quote and its interesting theological implications, but the first part, that a human was born and did exist."

I would like to assume that a historical Jesus did in fact exist but discuss the theological implications of the second part concerning whether Paul is compatible with the gospel of John, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (1:1) and, "And the Word became flesh and lived among us" (14).

What are some arguments for compatibility between Paul's "Markian adoptive Jesus" and John's Divine Jesus?

Any thoughts, comments?

Chris Weimer

Considering per Vorkosigan that Mark wrote his gospels off of both Paul and the Hebrew Scriptures, I think its a false dichotomy.

Vorkosigan

Good to you over here, Dongiovanni.

What would be incompatible about them?

Clivedurdle

I thought it was quite obvious - isn't Paul stating quite explicitly that Jesus only became the son of god at the resurrection - isn't that the adoptive heresy or something - compared with John's concept of the eternal son of god.

Amaleq13

I'm not sure it is that clear-cut. IIRC, Paul refers to a pre-existent Christ. It seems to me that the phrase "with power" is significant to Paul and refers back to the idea that devoiding himself of power was necessary for the sacrifice.

Chili

Devoiding himself of power is what crucifixion and resurrection are all about. It is important to remember here that our entry back into Eden must be a mystery if the use of our faculty of reason got us banned from Eden to start with.

The pre-existent Christ was there but the human nature needed to die freely to set this pre-existent divine nature free. The pre-existent divine nature was reborn in Joseph (here called Jesus) and it was Peter's keen insight that recognized this Christ identity as messiah but was told to tell noone that this concealed nature was divine in origin (or they would have never crucified him).

The concept "devoiding himself of power" is beyond religion and even beyond "the test of a mystic is found in his ability to keep it a secret." A revolt is needed wherein religion must crucify the believer to make resurrection possible . . . wherefore only those who have died can have victory over sin = Eden.

It is also far beyond the popular salvation techniques that are preached by modern religions and must be the best kept secret in the world.

Jesus became God and Lord God when all doubt was removed with the consent of Thomas, who was the twin of faith that also defrocked Peter as twin of Thomas.