Freethought & Rationalism ArchiveThe archives are read only. |
10-30-2011, 06:54 PM | #1 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Location: midwest
Posts: 1,087
|
Were there any first century Jewish groups that saw Satan as evil?
Were there any first century Jewish groups that saw Satan as evil?
In the NT, Paul and Jesus and other Jewish authors saw Satan as pure evil, opposed to God. In classical Judaism, Satan was seen as a prosecutor or adversary, an angelic servant of God who tested Jews' commitment to YWH. The Dead Sea Scrolls and Josephus and Philo of Alexandra showed a very diverse array of first century Jewish groups and beliefs. The Dead Sea Scrolls themselves distinguish between the sons of light and sons of darkness. I am aware, thanks to Elaine Pagels, that the idea of an ultimate evil may have originated in some Jewish groups during the Babylonian Captivity. Some Jews were exposed to Persian Zoroastrianism, which posited a dualism between light and dark, good and evil. These Jews then identified ha Satan (the adversary) with pure evil. But are there any non-Christian Jewish groups that shared with Christians a belief in Satan as pure evil? Josephus writes of the Pharisees, who obviously did not, and the Sadducee, who also did not (apprarently they did not believe in an afterlife or angels). Did the Essenes see Satan as pure evil? Zealots were more of a political group than a religious belief. Did Zealots see Satan as pure evil? Were there a group of Jewish Zoroastrians who identified Old Testament Ha Satan to Pure evil? How is it that the earliest Christian writings, such as Paul, saw Satan as pure evil, but the Pharisees, Sadducees did not see Satan as such? I am not aware of Philo of Alexandria advocating such a belief. Josephus also wrote of the common lay Jews. Did they see Satan as pure evil? Why did early Christians identify Satan with pure evil in opposition to the mainstay Judaism of the time? Why did the idea of Satan as pure evil die out in Judaism (but obviously survive in Christianity). |
10-30-2011, 09:12 PM | #2 | |
Contributor
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
|
The writers of the Dead Sea Scrolls had the idea of Satan as evil. If you think the DSS were written by the Essenes, that would make the Essenes the group you are looking for. But some Jews did seem to believe that Satan was evil.
From a reference in Religioustolerance.org A History of the Devil (or via: amazon.co.uk) By Gérald Messadié p. 243 (on Google Books Quote:
|
|
10-30-2011, 09:37 PM | #3 | ||
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Location: midwest
Posts: 1,087
|
Quote:
Since some of the DSS do see Satan as evil, and Paul and other early Christians did as well, could early proto-Christians with Teacher of Righteousness and Sons of Light and Sons of Darkness referring to a Christianity (pushing back the age of Christianity a century or so) |
||
10-30-2011, 10:03 PM | #4 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: On the path of knowledge
Posts: 8,889
|
Ten Jews will net you at least fifteen different opinions on almost any subject.
In other words the Jewish religion has never been a monolithic bloc, and diversity of personal opinion and conviction was and is a way of life, somewhat the contrary of a willingness (founded in social identity, and the needs of cultural cohesion) -by many, to in spite of those differences of opinions, conform their lives to a set of identifiably 'Jewish' ancient practices. Judaism is perhaps the only religion where its followers and participants can be, can become, or can remain as atheists. Participation in one's Jewish culture and community is encouraged irregardless of ones personal opinions on the value of the beliefs or the practices of the religion. Of course those who are devout believers will attempt to 'guide' their fellow Jews into belief. But the general understanding is that a Jew is still a Jew no matter how backslid-den, or non-believing they might be at the time. An atheist Jew is therefore always welcome, as there is hope that tomorrow they will no longer be atheistic. As long as he lives, the prodigal son can always return to the open arms of his people. For any Jew, even for an Atheist with a capital A, the invitation is; Join the Synagogue near you. |
10-30-2011, 10:24 PM | #5 | |||
Contributor
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
10-31-2011, 04:51 AM | #7 | |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 2,579
|
Quote:
Best, Jiri |
|
10-31-2011, 01:25 PM | #8 |
Contributor
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
|
Robert M. Price discusses this issue in his Biblegeek podcast for Oct 30, 2011.
It's not up on his homepage yet, but can be accessed through the ustream link. The first question asks about demons, in honor of Halloween - whether the demons are fallen angels, as in Milton's Paradise Lost, and whether these demons would make sense to readers in the first century. |
10-31-2011, 08:22 PM | #9 |
Contributor
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
|
Whoever wrote the letters of "John" mentions the antichrist as the deceiver. Satan was obviously looking around the world to find just the kind of person who would "confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.". According to "John" many evil satanic and antichristian deceivers had entered the world, and surrounded him on all sides. Like the graphic scenes out of "The Ghostbusters", it may have been exciting times to be an intrepid Apostle weilding True Power over Satan, the Antichrists, the hordes of demons!
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|