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Old 01-20-2008, 02:47 PM   #1
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Default Chili on various unclear subjects split from the Miracle of Fishes

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Originally Posted by Loomis View Post
The story appears to be looping around in time from the point of Jesus’ resurrection to the point earlier in the story where he meets Simon (aka Peter) in Galilee. It suggests that the whole earthly ministry of Jesus in Mark was not literal history but appearances of "risen Jesus" to the apostles.

Am I making any sense?
Not really. The loop you see is to let the reader know that there is no Judaism left in Mark to avoid Matthew's tragedy that the body was gone and no resurrection to follow the crucifixion event. It therefore ends with the great commssion without any evidence by the believer as in John 10:21 where Jesus showed his wounds and said "as the father has send me, so I am sending you" (and thus bearing the stigmata).

Mark does show that Galilee is a purgation event (we call it Purgatory)wherein the believer must work out his own salvation and for this he needs go to the sea of Galilea (which represents his own intuition) to avoid the fray that religion brings about. After all, they first betrayed him and now are still needed to crucify the believer (. . . from which follows that a "Christian religion" is a contradiction in terms but that is not the argument here).

So Mark is real but removes Judaism and Luke introduces Catholic metaphysics this time and so again returns to a birth narrative to do this.
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:56 PM   #2
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And to make it worse John 21 mentions 153 - a direct steal from a fishy story from Plato. Oops Shum Mishtake ! :devil1:

(But there is nothing pagan or astrological in the NT of course!):banghead:
Who is arguing that there is nothing pagan or astrological in the NT?

I think the point that Malachi151 is making (in the other thread) is that the story of Jesus Christ originated with Jewish thought.
If it is native to man it cannot be exclusive to Judaism but one must give them credit for creating the conditions in the mind of the believer that brought the event about. I will agree that there was nothing historical about the event, yet it happened to this guy they called Joseph (whoever that may have been) and I actually believe that it happened to many more in those days as per Galatians 5:21-31.
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Old 01-20-2008, 05:08 PM   #3
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[

Is that a mind fuck? Or what?

So you would probably argue for literary censorhip by now. But let me tell you first that you cannot blame the book anymore than you can blame a gun or killing people.

So maybe we should put a warning label on the bible that it is not to be read by people under 40, let's say, so at least they will have had a chance to see Abraham.
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Old 01-20-2008, 09:25 PM   #4
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[

Is that a mind fuck? Or what?

So you would probably argue for literary censorhip by now. But let me tell you first that you cannot blame the book anymore than you can blame a gun or killing people.

So maybe we should put a warning label on the bible that it is not to be read by people under 40, let's say, so at least they will have had a chance to see Abraham.

But I agree that the filioque position was a bit unfair to the believer in that it was like playing with fire. Real fire, that is.
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:43 AM   #5
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[
What else could it possibly mean? And while you’re at it find a reason why John places his “Miracle of Fishes” after the crucifixion.
Miracles are allegories. The whole bible is allegory and metaphor except Jn.6:55 where the body of Christ is real food and the blood of Christ is real drink.
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Old 01-21-2008, 12:31 PM   #6
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The idea that the whole Marcan gospel is supposed to be understood as post-resurrection has been footed before. (Perhaps someone can help with an exact reference, but I am almost sure I came across the idea somewhere in Robert M. Price, Deconstructing Jesus). The basic notion is that Mark the promised resurrection appearance in Mark is actually the call of the fisherman in chapter 1, making the whole gospel loop back on itself in some weird way.

Ben.
Well it isn't Ben because Mark knows nothing about metaphysics and the call of the disciples in Mark shows the order in which illumination occurs, which is from faith to doubt that gains recognition with te cure of the demoniac and next when they meet Peter's mother-in-law who was feeling pretty sick right about then. Peter's mother-in-law would be the mother of doubting Thomas who is not called to be a fisher of men but is part of the argument nonetheless as the twin of Peter in faith. Galilee is a state of mind here where the authority of Jesus in Galilee means that the reborn Joseph was a new creation indeed.

It is true that the shepherds are called to be disciples in Galilee and are recalled to be truimvirs in Israel where reason must prevail.
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