Tuatara

(Hi, I’m new) Does anyone know of any Bible passages that give a method and an outcome that could be tested? For example:

Numbers 5:11-31

And does anyone know of any Christian organisations would be willing to commission an investigation into this?:grin:

Atheos

Welcome to the forums, Tuatara!

Your question merits thought and is good for a chuckle as well. There are many absurd passages in the j/c bible, and this is one that really stands out.

It should be noted that like many passages that have survived in scripture this "test" is carefully shielded with qualifiers to give biblegod an "out". Numbers 5:13 lists the qualifiers, which effectively make it impossible to use this as a test for the existence of god: In other words, there can be no witnesses who can prove whether or not the "test" was successful. If it is common knowledge that the woman was cheating on her husband, this test is null and void.

The ancient superstitions that have actually survived thousands of years of scruitiny are only the ones that were protected with enough conditions to allow apologists a way to defend them.

-Atheos

Dlx2

Actually, the way I'd always understood the passages in the bible concerning witnesses was that the existence of a death penalty showed a strong condemnation, but the strict requirements concerning witnesses and conviction would allow the court to acquit an accused individual.

Atheos

I'm having a little trouble following your point, Dlx2. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I assume you mean that since there was a death penalty in the OT for women who cheated that if there were witnesses they'd just stone her anyway (Deut 22:22). And that's a valid point.

The next question is, why aren't the people required to stone her if her guilt is verified with this "test"? Same crime, why the different penalty? The passage indicates that she's definitely guilty if her belly swells and her thigh rots. It's even more reliable than witnesses, who might be persuaded to lie.

Makes you go "hmmmmm."

-Atheos

Tuatara

It does say

Num 5:31
"....this woman shall bear her iniquity"

(sorry if the title of this thread sounds a little flippant, but I do mean it to be a serious question)

Dean Anderson

I think (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that Dlx2 is referring to a common apologetic that I've heard from Christians trying to square up "God is Love" with the harsh laws and punishments in the Hebrew Bible.

The apologetic basically runs along the lines that all this putting to death of people left right and centre for what seem to us to be minor crimes (or not even crimes at all) never actually happened. The death-penalty was theoretically there, as a symbolic reminder that God didn't like that sort of behaviour, but the rules for evidence were deliberately set so high that no-one was ever actually convicted of any of these crimes - so no-one ever got executed. In the occasional case that there were the required witnesses and so on, then the witnesses would simply not come forward with an accusation because they knew that if they did so someone would die.

It's a lousy apologetic, but I've heard it quite a few times from Christians who don't want to make the laws look tyrranical and oppressive because that doesn't fit their lovey-dovey arty-farty wishy-washy airy-fairy hoity-toity image of God.

atheist_manifesto

A lousy apologetic for a lousy God who sent a couple of bears to kill some poor kids for mocking the prophet Elijah. How about that for a loving God. Talk about "Suffer little children to come unto me" ...

Besides, wouldn't the failure to apply the proscibed punishment be a failure to apply God's Law? Is there no end to the contradictions? Will reason never prevail? :banghead:

PS... I'm new too, so 'Hi everybody!'

...I'll be off then.

atheist_manifesto

Actually, doesn't this relate to the question of how Christians rationalise their religion of following a man who came not to change the law and the prophets while disregarding Mosaic law? I mean, when was the last time you saw a kid stoned to death for bad-mouthing his/her parents? Personally, I'm under at least three different death sentences.

Has this one been done to death already? Is this the wrong Forum?

...I'll get my coat.

lenrek

The OP is more about BC&H than EoG, and judging from the responses so far, maybe a move to BC&H would be better.

So, EoG -> BC&H.