lee_merrill

Hi everyone,

There is an assumption here that God is not participating in any way, apart from giving this command, which I do not believe.

Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

How much more so, in the case of Isaac? So God was involved, and bearing this, as shown in his death on the cross. Would you take a person through a painful experience, if you knew it would only do them good? Remember Abraham believed he would see Isaac raised from the dead here, so it was not the picture people do paint here.

God not withholding his best from us has not changed, though.


Yes, then could Satan not unintentionally carry out God's will?

Psalm 119:91 They stand this day according to your ordinances, For all things are your servants.

Yet, again, this is assuming God is apart from suffering, "slaughters countless numbers."

If a man slaughters another, we put him in prison. If a man injures himself, we don't--now they might not be in their right mind, but that is another question, and for that, I would again point to the cross.

1 Corinthians 1:23-25 But we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

Regards,
Lee

John A. Broussard

If I were an omnipotent, omnibenevolent god, I'd be able to accomplish that "good" for the person without the intervening painful experience.

Doesn't that make sense to you?

Amaleq13

No.

I would try to explain to them why willingly going through a painful experience would do them good so that they could make an informed decision about what to do.

lee_merrill

Hi everyone,

No the good of overcoming evil! That requires real evil, and the good of overcoming pain requires real pain…

Certainly involuntary decisions are not very beneficial, I agree, and that is part of the good, to choose well, in times of difficulty and pain. Don't we admire people who do that?

"And found myself respected by the others who got rained on too, and made it through..."

Regards,
Lee

John A. Broussard

So god is incapable of overcoming evil, because that would require real evil, and overcoming pain would require real pain.

Yours is indeed a strange god, who can't accomplish what an aspirin can.

Wallener

Satan can only carry out G-d's will. Satan is G-d's servant. Anything less than that leads directly to G-d not being G-d.

lee_merrill

Hi everyone,

Aspirin can overcome pain, and God can overcome pain, even more so, and in a better way, I'm not sure how aspirin is different and more capable here, though.

Yes, I agree, an unintentional servant, but God is that smart…

Regards,
Lee

Wallener

No. An intentional servant. Anything less is a violation of monotheism. Satan only carries out direct orders, and is not capable of initiating action without direct orders.

John A. Broussard

Aspirin is far, far better since, in your own words, for god, "overcoming pain would require real pain." Aspirin doesn't require real pain to overcome pain.

Jack the Bodiless

...Why would Abraham believe this?

You still haven't really answered my question. HOW would Abraham know about the raising of Jesus, centuries in the future? Or anyone else, for that matter: had anyone ever been raised from the dead at this point?
I see no indication of this in Genesis. Quite the reverse, in fact: God didn't want us to have the "forbidden fruit", and humans were supposed to GIVE some of "their best" stuff to God (as sacrifices), and the priests didn't hand the stuff back afterwards.