macintologist

Credit to spl.

WARNING:
This post contains explicit description of violence which may be upsetting to some readers.

A quote from the Christian Bible (also in the Hebrew Bible):
In the following story, you see through the eyes of Moses. You are Moses.

It is a joyous day for you. The war against the Midianites is finished, the Lord God has blessed you, and you have been victorious. You have taken all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and taken the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods, as the Lord commanded you.

Two of your soldiers come towards you, between them there is a young Midianite woman. They grasp her shoulders and clothes tightly to prevent her from escaping. In her arms, she protectively holds her small baby. Seeing this, you tell your soldiers to hold her, and you stride towards her. As you reach for her baby, she struggles to free herself, but your soldiers hold her well.

The baby cries as you grapple with him, trying to pull him away from his mother. Suddenly, you give the mother a heavy slap across the face. In the moment when she is stunned, you pull her baby away from her. Her voice thick with emotion, she says, "Please don't take my baby! PLEASE! Please I beg you!"

Without answering her, you carry the crying baby away, but order your soldiers to bring the mother. After a short walk, you reach a rocky patch of ground that is littered with jagged beige stones of medium size. Using both hands, you raise the baby, still crying, above your head.

The mother screams frantically, "NOOOO!!! PLEASE DON'T KILL MY BABY! I beg you! I will do anything for you, anything! PLEASE!!"

You ignore her pleas. With all of your strength, you hurl the baby towards the stones. The mother covers her face with her hands, unable to look at the imminent death of her baby. There is a loud cracking sound as the baby's skull hits a rock and breaks, along with other fragile bones. However the baby does not die instantaneously. His arms and legs slowly twitch as his blood starts to seep out of his broken body and stain the rocks and the ground with bright redness. After some time, his body ceases twitching, and he is dead.

The mothers legs have collapsed, and she has fallen to the ground. Tears are streaming down her face making dirty streaks, and her body is shuddering with uncontrollable sobs.

You look at what you have done, and you feel happy. You smile at your soldiers. You feel honored to be serving the almighty God. You turn to face your people, and you say unto them, "Have ye saved all the women alive? Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

You gaze with approval as a group of your men kick the legs out from underneath a Midianite girl of about 14 or 15 years of age, causing her to fall to the hard ground. She screams in terror and kicks frantically, but your men hold her arms and legs, stretching her out on the ground. One of your men pulls up her dress and examines her hymen, poking and prodding with dirty fingers splattered with dried blood from earlier activities, in an attempt to determine whether she is a virgin and thus whether she will be killed or kept alive for the pleasure of the men.

Satisfied that she is a virgin, your men then proceed to throw dice to determine who will have sex with her first. You nod, and praise and thank the Lord for all that He has given you today.

mountain_hare

Ahh, very powerful indeed. If I ever want to stir up some fundies, I might post that. :notworthy

John A. Broussard

What you ignore is the fact that if god hadn't ordered this done, the baby would have grown up to be an atheist. This way he's saved for all of eternity. Or does he go to Limbo? I forget. But keep in mind that god has created the best of all possible worlds.

Wallener

Although clearly a mythical story, the moral issues raised are still real. Yes, Moshe is a baby killer. Moshe also knows full well that if he loses, he and his buds and their kids will likewise be slaughtered. From a modern perspective, the lesson is clearly Machievellian: if you're going to fight, know why you're fighting, and do the job thoroughly so you don't have to do it twice.

War is Hell.

Not in anyway trying to rationalize away the implications. This is an extremely difficult passage for Judaism, and will (I hope) continue to remain so for a long long time. I hope I never get so calloused that I can read that without cringing.

Anat

To what part of Judaism is it a hard passage, Wallener? Has traditional Judaism dealt with it other than apologising it in line with John's post above in some variation (with an adaptation of the afterlife concept)? (Oh and the virgins weren't raped, they were 'only' forced into marriages in accordance with Deuteronomy 21:10-14.) Yes, it is problematic to those Jewish elements who want to use Judaism as the basis for humanist values, or who would like to see a Judaism that is in line with such values. But the latter are selective regarding their acceptance of Torah anyway.

Wallener

Much has, some hasn't. There is certainly a segment that considers the passage as enabling Israel as a "sword of G-d". Some of them were even on television today, trying to storm Temple Mount as their protest against Jews who don't agree with such an enabling mission.

Eldarion Lathria

The last line of that bible passage is usually left out. But in very old manuscripts it is there. That line is, "For I have determined upon a Final Solution to the Midianite question." Numbers 18.

Eldarion Lathria

John A. Broussard

Surely you are jesting. On the off chance that you aren't, can you cite the source (s)?

Thanks for the source if it exists, for the humor if it doesn't.

Eldarion Lathria

The source is De Squalor Bibliam by Stephanus. It is also referred to in Gerson's Auferabilitate Ecclesia ad Papam It is entered into evidence at the trial of Yahweh for war crimes on Mount Olympus.

Eldarion Lathria

John A. Broussard

Absolutely impeccable sources. How could I possibly have doubted you? I thought you might have been misquoting from Duanitius' Scriptosus Dubiosa