Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Gudjonsson · 09-29-2007, 09:00 AM

I read a speech by Gerald A. Larue here on infidels.org, where he mentioned Mitchell Dahood, and the Anchor Bible Commentary (or via: amazon.co.uk). In the ABC, Dahood shows that many of the hymns from the book of Psalms are borrowed from the “heathen” temples of the Caananites. Larue mentions for example that the first seven verses of Psalm 19 are probably an adaption of a Caananite hymn to the sun, and that Psalm 29 is an adaption of a hymn to the storm god Baal. This is maybe old news to some of you, but it was news to me, and I want to know more.

Unfortunately I do not have access to the Anchor Bible Commentary.

Could anyone inform me more about this interesting subject, or point me to some links about the Caananite origins of (some of) the Psalms?

spin · 09-29-2007, 10:24 AM

(Umm, you could buy the three volumes of his commentary from Amazon. A search using "mitchell dahood psalms" will get you there. Amazon ships anywhere.)

Gudjonsson · 09-29-2007, 10:38 AM

The problem is that I don’t have money to buy the commentaries right now, and that my wife would not like to see those books in my home. I decided not to provoke her, for the time being, by buying books that she thinks are inspired by the devil. (Fundamentalism)

Ray Moscow · 09-29-2007, 10:57 AM

Luckily these days you can find some good material on the internet, though seldom in the depth of the Anchor Bible or similar scholarly works.

Do they have a theological section at your local library? They might be able to get these books for you.

Ray

Gudjonsson · 09-29-2007, 11:21 AM

No! There is no theological section, and only a handful of books about theology. I have already read them all.

Gudjonsson · 09-29-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Moscow

Luckily these days you can find some good material on the internet,

Luckily for me. I have been reading everything of interest I can find on the internet. I have access through my law department to scholarly electronic databases and e-journals where I have been able to find decent theological articles to read.

I have also been reading the books at the library at infidels.org. I am currently reading Gerald. A. Larue, Old Testament Life and Literature.

Toto · 09-29-2007, 11:50 AM

There is a cheap used copy on Amazon.

Could someone with expertise comment on this from the one customer review?

Quote:

In addition to Dahood focusing on nitty-gritty details of Northwest Semitic linguistics, there is the lamentable fact that he all too often grossly overstates the case of comparative linguistic data, and simply offers wholely implausible readings of biblical texts. One cannot help but think of Dahood's unfortunate publication of a text from the ancient city of Ebla, in which he claimed that it was a direct parallel to a passage in the book of Proverbs; as it turns out, the text in question was a butcher's list of different cuts of meat.

judge · 09-29-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gudjonsson

Could anyone inform me more about this interesting subject, or point me to some links about the Caananite origins of (some of) the Psalms?

Did you find anything with google, there seems to be plenty of stuff?
As no one here has any ideas maybe you can do some trawling?

davidbach · 10-01-2007, 07:37 AM

This is fascinating stuff. Thanks for introducing me to this area of study.

I like the immediacy of the comparison with known archeological texts. Imported portions of the OT are also found in other places, notably the two (or three) creation stories and the Utnapishtim (Noah) flood. Those, however have no known or very distant antecedents. These Ugarit texts are much closer, almost word-for-word in a few places.

Does the Canaanite El correspond to the Elohim of the creation story? It would make sense that the "Gods" were plural as the Canaanites were polytheists.

David.

Toto · 10-01-2007, 12:38 PM

There is a new translation of The Book of Psalms (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Robert Alter, and a review in the New Yorker might be of interest.

Desert Storm: Understanding the capricious God of the Psalms reviewed by James Wood.

Quote:

One of the verses of Psalm 92—"For, look, Your enemies, O LORD, / for, look, Your enemies perish, / all the wrongdoers are scattered"—virtually repeats a line from one of the polytheistic Ugaritic texts found in Syria, in 1928. The earlier Ugaritic text, however, invokes Baal: "Look, your enemies, O Baal, / look, your enemies you will smash." Psalm 82 tells a story in which God—the Jewish God of the Psalms—stands up in a council of other gods and essentially fires his colleagues for not being compassionate enough.

Alter’s translation is especially helpful in these cases, because he is determined to remind his readers that they are reading ancient texts with hybrid origins, not Christian prayers with dedicated destinations. The Psalms (like the Book of Job) were relentlessly Christianized by the King James translators. Nefesh, meaning "life breath" and, by extension, "life," was translated by Jerome in the Latin Vulgate as anima and then as "soul" in the K.J.V., even though, as Alter points out, soul "strongly suggests a body-soul split—with implications of an afterlife—that is alien to the Hebrew Bible and to Psalms in particular." The ancient Hebrew word for the shadowy underworld where the dead go, Sheol, was Christianized as "Hell," even though there is no such concept in the Hebrew Bible. Alter prefers the words "victory" and "rescue" as translations of yeshu'ah, and eschews the Christian version, which is the heavily loaded "salvation." And so on. Stripping his English of these artificial cleansers, Alter takes us back to the essence of the meaning. Suddenly, in a world without Heaven, Hell, the soul, and eternal salvation or redemption, the theological stakes seem more local and temporal: "So teach us to number our days." Psalm 23, again, is greatly refreshed by translation. Everything is clearer, seeming to have been rinsed not in the baptismal water of the New Testament but in the life-giving water of the desert. Verse 3 of the K.J.V. has "He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake." Alter offers "my life He brings back. / He leads me on pathways of justice / for His name’s sake." God saves not our souls but our lives, in Alter’s version. And instead of God anointing our heads with oil, as in the K.J.V., in Alter’s English "You moisten my head with oil." A footnote points out that the Hebrew verb is not one used for anointment, "and its associations are sensual rather than sacramental." By its end, the psalm is no longer an extended Christian analogy (Christ as the Good Shepherd, anointing his flock) but the giving of thanks by a vulnerable tribe to a deity for its protection. The K.J.V. has the last half line of the psalm as "and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever." Alter slaps a term limit on the eternal, and suggests "And I shall dwell in the house of the LORD / for many long days." Again, a footnote anchors the decision: "The viewpoint of the poem is in and of the here and now and is in no way eschatological. The speaker hopes for a happy fate all his born days."

09-29-2007, 09:00 AM	#1
Gudjonsson Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Akureyri, Iceland. Posts: 104	Psalms were borrowed from the heathen temples of the Caananites I read a speech by Gerald A. Larue here on infidels.org, where he mentioned Mitchell Dahood, and the Anchor Bible Commentary (or via: amazon.co.uk). In the ABC, Dahood shows that many of the hymns from the book of Psalms are borrowed from the “heathen” temples of the Caananites. Larue mentions for example that the first seven verses of Psalm 19 are probably an adaption of a Caananite hymn to the sun, and that Psalm 29 is an adaption of a hymn to the storm god Baal. This is maybe old news to some of you, but it was news to me, and I want to know more. Unfortunately I do not have access to the Anchor Bible Commentary. Could anyone inform me more about this interesting subject, or point me to some links about the Caananite origins of (some of) the Psalms?

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09-29-2007, 10:24 AM	#2
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	(Umm, you could buy the three volumes of his commentary from Amazon. A search using "mitchell dahood psalms" will get you there. Amazon ships anywhere.)

09-29-2007, 10:38 AM	#3
Gudjonsson Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Akureyri, Iceland. Posts: 104	The problem is that I don’t have money to buy the commentaries right now, and that my wife would not like to see those books in my home. I decided not to provoke her, for the time being, by buying books that she thinks are inspired by the devil. (Fundamentalism)

09-29-2007, 10:57 AM	#4
Ray Moscow Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 1,255	Luckily these days you can find some good material on the internet, though seldom in the depth of the Anchor Bible or similar scholarly works. Do they have a theological section at your local library? They might be able to get these books for you. Ray

09-29-2007, 11:21 AM	#5
Gudjonsson Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Akureyri, Iceland. Posts: 104	No! There is no theological section, and only a handful of books about theology. I have already read them all.

10-01-2007, 07:37 AM	#9
davidbach Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 462	This is fascinating stuff. Thanks for introducing me to this area of study. I like the immediacy of the comparison with known archeological texts. Imported portions of the OT are also found in other places, notably the two (or three) creation stories and the Utnapishtim (Noah) flood. Those, however have no known or very distant antecedents. These Ugarit texts are much closer, almost word-for-word in a few places. Does the Canaanite El correspond to the Elohim of the creation story? It would make sense that the "Gods" were plural as the Canaanites were polytheists. David.

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