bacht

So what's the point: Religion is stupid? that's original, even the Greeks had figured that out

Should we go through the Hindu scriptures, or the Koran, pointing out how silly it all is? Kinda like shooting fish in a barrel, isn't it?

True believers won't accept these kinds of arguments anyway, they usually have to figure it out the hard way

figuer

From the standpoint of analytical psychology that would be a reasonable explanation.

figuer

So?

figuer

Particularly when it is placed within the context of the various doctrines (predestination, omniscience... etc. etc.)

bacht

so the sin was disobeying God, which He knew would happen anyway because He didn't kill Adam, just sent him away

btw why doesn't anyone ever reference the Jewish commentaries on this OT stuff?

Anat

Actually according to the author of the story God kicked them out because he feared they'd eat the fruit of the Tree of Life too and become immortal.

It seems that eating both fruits would have made A&E equal to God as was perceived by the author of the story (this version of God certainly wasn't omniscient) and he did not need competition (yes, the snake was the most honest character).

juergen

Thanks, I stand corrected.

Zaphod

Forgive my ignorance - I was born Jewish and didn't pay much attention to even that - but this Original Sin business seems important to me as an atheist.

Is not this Original Sin the reason that the Christian God allows innocent babies to suffer, to have cancer, and to die?

That because of this "sin" of Eve, humankind can no longer even be born into an innocent state?

I mean, is this all they got to reply to the Problem of (an omniscient God who allows) Suffering?

And why not , when Jesus died for our sins, and the sins of all our ancestors, is this Original Sin of Eve not also atoned for by the death of Jesus?

I understand that it is like the kid who doesn't like the score in the softball game taking place in his backyard - he takes the ball and goes inside. Of course apologists must come up with some set of homefield rules to allow for the problem of Suffering despite the idiocy involved - but truly - is this all they got?

And IF this is all they got - how have they got away with this for so long? The problem of suffering - it seems to me - is a very large problem indeed and one that tries the faith of even the most devout.

Should not such a problem deserve a better justification, or have I got this all wrong? Which is not unlikely.

storytime

They've gotten away with this for so long because of fear. Not many have had the courage to challenge the bible story; after all, it is believed to be the inerrant word of God still today, out of His own mouth as spoken by inspired prophets. Doubts may have been in the mind of both Christians and Jews, but as the teachers, parents, and society would declare in answer to what God had said, "Who and what is man that man should inquire of God. Is God a man that He be inquired of?" (OT) So what Christians and Jews did not understand, they accepted what they did not know on faith that God knew best and everything would work itself out by Gods plan. Basically, everyone made excuse for an angry monstrous hatefilled God.

I don't know when rebellion started that brought the doubting thomases out of the closet, so to speak. Maybe in the late 50's and early 60's free thinkers made their doubts known moreso than at any other time in history. The hippy movement, the new generation of TV evangelicals that began to interpret the bible differently than the Sunday-go-to-meetings crowds. I don't know. But, we are seeing a forward moving advantage for skeptics and atheists now, especially with the educational information found on the internet and here on this discussion forum.

juergen

Not to mention different scientific disciplines offering a sturdier backbone of understanding than ever before.