Voice of reason

Matthew 9:18 and Mark 5:23 presents a problem that I can find no scriptual fix for, only conjecture and that frankly will not do. Any remedies for this bible problem?

Daughter was dead (Matthew 9:18) "While He was saying these things to them, behold, there came a synagogue official, and bowed down before Him, saying, "My daughter has just died; but come and lay Your hand on her, and she will live."

Daughter at the point of death (Mark 5:23) "And one of the synagogue officials named Jairus *came up, and upon seeing Him, *fell at His feet, 23and *entreated Him earnestly, saying, "My little daughter is at the point of death; please come and lay Your hands on her, that she may get well and live." 24And He went off with him; and a great multitude was following Him and pressing in on Him." Emphasis mine.

Please remember conjecture will not do. The bible is clearly not inerrant.

There are no textual variations in any of the Greek manuscripts so there is no copyist error. What is the answer to this dilemma?

spamandham

Surely there is no aspect of this particular story that's rooted in reality, so who cares about the inconsistencies in the versions?

Doug Shaver

What problem? Contradictions are a problem only for inerrantists. You won't find many of those in this forum.

Voice of reason

This is the biblical criticism forum correct? There is a problem so any inerrantists and there are some here can address the issue if they like.

PhilosopherJay

Hi Voice of Reason,

It shows that the authors were either working from written documents, one to the other or working from the same source document.

One could say that Matthew changed Mark to make Jesus seem more powerful. He raised a child from the dead rather than just from an illness.

On the other hand, it is possible that Mark made the change. Possibly, he thought that the resurrection from the dead should be associated only with Jesus and stories about little girls being resurrected should not be given credibility, so he changed it to make it a simple healing from sickness miracle.

The story is based on Elijah's healing of the widow's son in 1 Kings 17-24


Based on this, it seems to me much more probable that Mark is changing the story from death to sickness and Matthew is transmitting an earlier version.


As usual, Luke decides to tell the story both ways by having the child reported sick and then adding that she died while Jesus was on the way to her - 8.49 While he was still speaking, a man from the ruler's house came and said, "Your daughter is dead; do not trouble the Teacher any more."

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

JoeWallack

JW:
I can only guess that people who don't like discussing contradictions in a Forum dedicated to "Biblical Criticism & History" also don't like to eat during meals or grind out ernies in the WC.

If you dare venture out into the larger E-bible world I dare say that FRDB is the most referred to site for information on Biblical Criticism & History. There could be a relationship.

As someone who has always been primarily interested in demonstrating errors in the Christian Bible ErrancyWiki I remember early on when even the legendary Vorkosigan asked me what the point was of demonstrating errors in the Christian Bible ("What does it tell us?"). The point is that the demonstration is qualitative and quantitative. There are significantly more important and more errors than the average Christian realizes which has been hidden from the world by Christianity (as Bart Ehrman demonstrates). The Christian Bible is arguably the most important book in the history of the West. In an Irony that I think "Mark" would really appreciate, those who don't believe in it have a responsibility to communicate to those who do, what the Christian Bible really says. The resultant irony is that as Christians continue to understand and accept the extent of error in the Christian Bible, the world will become a better place. THan we will have to spend our time looking for contradictions in Star Trek scripts.



Joseph

ErrancyWiki

OLDMAN

The whole aspect of the Christian or New Testament, is to diminish how savage and barbaric the Jewish God is in the Old Testament. Jesus is 180 degree turnabout compared to the creator. It isn't by mistake. Without Jesus, the only people served by God's bloodlust are the Jews.

Solo

What control datasets would you suggest are available to produce a guaranteed solution to this minor issue ?

Jiri

Solo

Sounds very much like the ideological gruel the commies fed us (in Eastern Europe) in political science seminars.

For the mystic in you, Joe:

The Lord came to me when I read your post and said: The world will become a better place the moment one knows how to be a better person. And verily I say to you, a better person will tolerate harmless idiocies, such as telling stories about the Lord.

Jiri

Voice of reason

I would not consider an alleged perfect gods writings holding error as being minor.

There are inerrantists out there this pair of verses is a large problem not a minor one.

Once it is established that the bible is in error that opens an entire new discussion which should have its own thread.