Mageth

If you're as old as me, you'll remember that at least some of the Church used to be more straightforward about the rather unpleasant side of God as depicted in the OT. The modern church seems to be tending towards softening their view of God over the last few decades. That may change, though; fear can be a powerful tool.

budgie

I was raised a Lutheran (not Missouri Synod) and taught that the Old Testament God was a vengeful critter whereas the New Testament God was a loving God. As far as my denominational flavor was concerned, the loving God exists to this day.

I didn't ask the right questions about the unpleasant god so my teenage years were filled with anticipatory confusion and sinless guilt. My kids will not suffer as I did, I'm letting them read the bible without any preconceived notions of what is in it. (well, maybe only the gory bits or the contradictory parts)

As for my age, I am he as depicted by Eric Foreman (Topher Grace).

-jim

Perry5

In the time of Noah,people had no idea as to how big the earth was and were not aware of all the life forms on earth.

I believe that God prefers spiritual fruit to religious nuts.

Mageth

Actually, they had an idea of how big the earth was; their idea was just wrong. And they thougth they were aware of all life forms on earth, but they were wrong.

(But I don't see what this has to do with my post, in particular.)

The dude must go hungry a lot, then.

justsumner

The Babble is unfit reading for anyone, especially those easily influenced like children.

CX

I think there's a difference between offensive and sick and "atrocious" but perhaps not. In any event I wouldn't quibble with such things as you mention. I ultimately think some of the central doctrines of Xianity are immoral and dehumanizing. There's no way around justifying the extermination of every living thing on the planet.

Vorkosigan

CX got it right. AFAIK the OT does not make the claim. That's what moderns have injected into the text. So it looks like your beef is with modern Xtians, not the OT.

spin

I find this thread is showing that people are incapable of separating their own modern mores from those of the texts they are trying to project their mores on.

A book is (just) a book (in itself having no power whatsoever) and usually reflects the era in which it was written: if we perceive that era to be atrocious, then the book will probably contain material we perceive to be atrocious. However, at the time of writing that which we perceive as atrocious was perhaps normal. The content of the book therefore should be judged in the context of its time of production.

The problem, which some are bitching about here, arises when modern people try to present such books as relevant to everyone's life today, which is a patently misguided attempt.

It's a bit like saying that pure Shakespearean plays are the way dramatic entertainment should be today. Our mores in drama are very different today: we need more realism, more special effects, more natural language, shorter plots, less formal apparatus, etc. There are those who still flog Shakespeare as the height of English drama and people should be forced to appreciate it. Of course, they can go and drop dead with such inappropriate ideas for this day and age.

Shakespeare holds a wealth of ideas and meanings and reflections on the human condition, making reading his work very rewarding, providing one accepts that it was written in a context which the reader needs to understand. The Hebrew bible can also be rewarding with the same provisos. It is literature to be read and appreciated for what it is.

People who say things like "The Babble is unfit reading for anyone, especially those easily influenced like children" wouldn't have the same reaction about Shakespeare because no-one seriously tries to shove it down your throat. They are simply aiming at the wrong target. What gets shoved down ones throat could be anything. The culprit is the one who is doing the shoving. No-one likes people shoving things down their throat. It doesn't matter what it is.

Let's stop shooting at the wrong thing, as a lot of people are doing in this thread. The Hebrew bible is an ancient text and should be read as an ancient text. Anyone who says that it should be read differently, eg as some key for living today, is gratifying him/herself and has no real interest in those who s/he is trying to influence.

Shoot the person who is misrepresenting the book. Leave the book be.


spin

(I have refrained from questioning the intellectual abilities of some on this thread because I understand that they may feel hurt, conned, tricked, abused, by those misrepresenting the book.)

Crucifiction

Here's my take on the subject:

The Bible was fit for the times it was writen in; many cultures had myths just as violent and cruel. However, I don't believe children of modern times should be exposed to it; because it can harm them. However, it's more the fault of modern society than the writers of the time. Children of the time were actually exposed to real life, they knew about violence and death and bloodshed, unlike modern children who are, for most intents and purposes, sheltered from real life until their early teens, when they have it all thrust upon them {Trust me, I know, I'm sixteen}

spin

I'm sure you've seen your share of Jason films, Final Destination, Wrong Turn, etc., ad nauseum? Films have much more effect on the individual than a book can.

Yep, the problem still comes down to the idiot who peddles the bible as reality for the modern world. These people are the equivalent of child abusers, when they shove it down children's necks. The physically abusing parent usually learns to beat his/her children because their parents did it to them. The religionist usually does it because it happened to them. But then the average religionist knows jack-*hit about the bible. Text is such a slow medium these days. Read the book, son. But, dad, there's an episode The O.C. on tonite. It's time to put off your childish ways. ZZzzzzzzz. Thank god for TV evangelists. Ay-men, brother, pass the tray. You git the drect knowlidge that Jeezus can save yo' soul frm brimstone an' far.

I think the bible is a surrogate, a vicarious enemy. You (generic) can't shoot the real offenders, so you shoot the bible.


spin