Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Dr Rick · 08-13-2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Now really, Lee. Do you actually wish to argue with me in this thread and embarrass yourself again after the beating that I just gave you in the thread on prophecy? If so, I am ready for some more fun. You are way out of your league when it comes to debating the nature of God. That topic is my specialty, and I have some arguments that will quickly chase you right out of town.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but that's not much of an argument, nor is it conducive to one.

Black Feather · 08-14-2006, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lee_merrill

But how do these verses not indicate care? Mt. 10:29 is even more literally "apart from your Father."

Psalm 50:11 I know every bird in the mountains, and the creatures of the field are mine.

And this prophecy even indicates God's care for the order of nature, where animals eat each other:

Isaiah 11:6-7 The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

So the situation will some day change.

Romans 8:20-21 ... in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

Blessings,
Lee

All the verses you posted only discuss a future state of being--not that anyone cares about the animals. Just because they are mentioned does not imply caring.

Johnny Skeptic · 08-14-2006, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Now really, Lee. Do you actually wish to argue with me in this thread and embarrass yourself again after the beating that I just gave you in the thread on prophecy? If so, I am ready for some more fun. You are way out of your league when it comes to debating the nature of God. That topic is my specialty, and I have some arguments that will quickly chase you right out of town.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Rick

Please don't take this the wrong way, but that's not much of an argument, nor is it conducive to one.

You are not qualified to make an assessment of this matter because you do not know my background with Lee Merrill, nor do you have any idea whatsoever what I meant by "some arguments that will quickly chase you right out of town". I have debated Lee Merrill for years at the Theology Web, the Secular Web, and for a short time in private e-mail debates. Lee Merrill has refused to debate a number of important issues with me, including Biblical inerrancy, and the nature of God. The reason that I did not state my argument is because I already know from past experience that Lee Merrill will refuse to reply to it. The argument that I was referring to is my nature of God argument, and Lee refuses to debate that topic because he does not want to embarrass himself.

Now then, what is your opinion about the topic of this thread?

Apikorus · 08-14-2006, 01:42 PM

In the command to observe the Sabbath day in Deut 5:12-15, beasts of burden are also included in the provision to rest and do no work. A small glimmer of some concern...

Gamera · 08-14-2006, 01:46 PM

Gen 1:20 - And God said, "Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the firmament of the heavens." 21 So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22

Gen 1:24 - And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so. 25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Gamera · 08-14-2006, 01:54 PM

Mat 6: Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin; 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O men of little faith? 31

Dealing with plants but the idea is the same. God "provides" for the nonhuman world.

Johnny Skeptic · 08-15-2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamera

Mat 6: Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin; 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O men of little faith?

Yes, God will do much more than clothe Christians. He killed one fourth of the people in Europe with the Bubonic Plague, the majority of whom were Christians. The Bubonic Plague was caused by bacteria. Where do you think the bacteria came from? Have you ever heard of cruel and unusual punishment?

lee_merrill · 08-21-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Lee: But how do these verses not indicate care? Mt. 10:29 is even more literally "apart from your Father."

Psalm 50:11 I know every bird in the mountains, and the creatures of the field are mine.

And this prophecy even indicates God's care for the order of nature, where animals eat each other:

Isaiah 11:6-7 The wolf will live with the lamb...

Black Feather: All the verses you posted only discuss a future state of being--not that anyone cares about the animals. Just because they are mentioned does not imply caring.

The first two verses are about God's present actions, and a future change indicates a present concern, I would say. If you plan to make a change, I would say you are concluding the change is for the better.

And the verses Apikorus and Gamera posted are good, too...

Regards,
Lee

Chris Weimer · 08-21-2006, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apikorus

In the command to observe the Sabbath day in Deut 5:12-15, beasts of burden are also included in the provision to rest and do no work. A small glimmer of some concern...

But according to both the Talmud and the Scrolls, rescuing a lamb which fell into a pit is a violation of the Sabbath, but rescuing a human would not be.

greyline · 08-22-2006, 10:36 PM

If God cares about animals, why does he make them suffer so much?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-14-2006, 01:42 PM	#14
Apikorus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,396	In the command to observe the Sabbath day in Deut 5:12-15, beasts of burden are also included in the provision to rest and do no work. A small glimmer of some concern...

08-14-2006, 01:46 PM	#15
Gamera Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 10,955	Gen 1:20 - And God said, "Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the firmament of the heavens." 21 So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 Gen 1:24 - And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so. 25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

08-14-2006, 01:54 PM	#16
Gamera Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 10,955	Mat 6: Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin; 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O men of little faith? 31 Dealing with plants but the idea is the same. God "provides" for the nonhuman world.

08-22-2006, 10:36 PM	#20
greyline Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Doing Yahzi's laundry Posts: 792	If God cares about animals, why does he make them suffer so much?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.