Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Joan of Bark · 06-26-2010, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Do you know if he explains the apparent redundancy that his interpretation of the ten commandments would imply? There is already a commandment that says, "do not steal."

Actually the commandment may be better rendered as "do not kidnap". I'll try to find sources for this translation.

Okay, we'll use a Wiki source:

Quote:

Sources within Judaism assert that this is a reference to kidnapping, whereas Leviticus 19:11 is the Biblical reference banning the stealing of property. This understanding is based on the Talmudical hermeneutic known as דבר הלמד מעניינו/davar ha-lamed me-inyano (literally 'something proved by the context'), by which this must refer to a capital offense just as the previous two commandments refer to capital offenses.[13]

Anat · 06-27-2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

There is precedence for this, as the first two commandments are fairly redundant as well, and the one thing separating the two is ignored by most Xians with their crosses and statues/images of Jesus and Mary.

Jews consider those as the second commandment. The first commandment is:

Quote:

I am the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

ApostateAbe · 06-27-2010, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Do you know if he explains the apparent redundancy that his interpretation of the ten commandments would imply? There is already a commandment that says, "do not steal."

Actually the commandment may be better rendered as "do not kidnap". I'll try to find sources for this translation.

Okay, we'll use a Wiki source:

Quote:

Sources within Judaism assert that this is a reference to kidnapping, whereas Leviticus 19:11 is the Biblical reference banning the stealing of property. This understanding is based on the Talmudical hermeneutic known as דבר הלמד מעניינו/davar ha-lamed me-inyano (literally 'something proved by the context'), by which this must refer to a capital offense just as the previous two commandments refer to capital offenses.[13]

Thanks, that does seem to make the new proposal more plausible, at least.

HaRaAYaH · 06-27-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Do you know if he explains the apparent redundancy that his interpretation of the ten commandments would imply? There is already a commandment that says, "do not steal."

Actually the commandment may be better rendered as "do not kidnap". I'll try to find sources for this translation.

You are 100% correct. Your sources would be:

Mechilta Nezikim 5
Snahedrin 86a
Maimonides, Yad, Hilch Gevenah 9:1

The capital offense in question is Exodus 21:16 He who kidnaps a man--whether he has sold him or is still holding him--shall be put to death.

Ljoilae · 06-27-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeepTalking

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Do you know if he explains the apparent redundancy that his interpretation of the ten commandments would imply? There is already a commandment that says, "do not steal."

There is precedence for this, as the first two commandments are fairly redundant as well, and the one thing separating the two is ignored by most Xians with their crosses and statues/images of Jesus and Mary.

Old Testament law was never part of the Christian obligation (Old Covenant vs. New Covenant) until Protestants came along and threw out the context in which the church always understood the various parts of the bible and screwed it all up.

Anat · 06-27-2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Maimonides, Yad, Hilch Gevenah 9:1

I believe you meant Genevah.

HaRaAYaH · 06-28-2010, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anat

Quote:

Maimonides, Yad, Hilch Gevenah 9:1

I believe you meant Genevah.

It was late and the type was small... I was copying footnotes....

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