andrewcriddle

I'm sorry but I can't see anyhing at all in the wiki article suggesting that the decrees of Trent and Vatican 1 are regarded as fallible. Could you clarify please ?

Andrew Criddle

vid

Andrew: shi...! You are right, I have misread second "infallible" for "fallible". Thanks a lot, I think this clarifies the issue.

Doesn't that also mean that following "moral and theological teaching" are true?

With inerrant teachings like that, I am afraid catholics have a philosophical and civil problem...

vid

In one forum I found following:

The only english source for 1st Vatican Council I found (http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/V1.HTM) seems to be the smaller version (if "session" in linked document is same as "chapter" in quoted post). Can anyone confirm this, and preferably link to the english translation of original draft?

Huon

9. Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith, to the glory of God our savior, for the exaltation of the Catholic religion and for the salvation of the Christian people, with the approval of the Sacred Council, we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable.

So then, should anyone, which God forbid, have the temerity to reject this definition of ours: let him be anathema.

Given at Rome in public session, solemnly held in the Vatican Basilica in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and seventy, on the eighteenth day of July, in the twenty-fifth year of Our Pontificate.

In conformity with the original.

Joseph, Bishop of St. Polten Secretary to the Vatican Council
http://catholicity.elcore.net/CoreOn...otalis_PA.html

And you have also the latin text... Who says "grazie" ?

Petergdi

These articles were condemned by the Council of Constance. They were selected from a group of 260 statements from Wycliffe's work which were thought objectionable by the faculty of Oxford University.

I happen to think that Wycliffe was right about much, but not all that he wrote, and that the Council of Constance erred in condemning some things that Wycliffe was right about.

Peter.

vid

Owww, my bad. Nevermind, that was just (incorrect) offtopic.