mark9950

Who should the hebrews follow?The torah or jesus?

mark9950

Excuse me but I do not know what the crucifiers of jesus or the sanhedrin were thinking at the time,but I could conclude from many instances that THEY BELIEVED that God was not a man as a general statement.

Jesus was a human man

Jesus was claimed to be a messiah

Jesus was accused of blasphemy for claiming that

Jesus was killed of a crucifixion because of the accusation

This gives me the conclusion they believed that God was not a man period.It would be very stupid to intentionally kill your messiah if he really was one in the torah.

Kilgore Trout

Deut 29:29 ...he has revealed his law and we and our descendants are to obey it forever.

Jesus also disobeys Deut 4:2 "Do not add anything to what I command you and do not take anything away." Jesus added and took away from the Torah Laws all over the gospels, a great example is Matthew 5. Right after he "claims" no part of the law will be done away with (Matt 5:17-20) he starts listing laws that he is changing. I guess he meant no laws will be changed for the next 3 seconds and then it's open season for changes.

I agree with mark9950. Since the ruling powers decided Jesus was a heretic, the default assumption should be that he was a heretic and the burden of proof should be on the people who say otherwise. Anybody can write a book 40 years after a criminal was executed and claim he was executed on false charges and that the people who executed him were "evil". In Matt. 23:2-3 Jesus says the Pharisees are the authorized interpreters of the law, so they must be obeyed. Who are we to argue with that. If you can't trust them, then you can't trust some Jews who claim the messiah came to earth and no one seemed to notice.

Mike(ATL)

Ah but the law they were to obey forever was not obeyed forever. Therefore Jesus came to establish a new covenant. And this was no surprise it was prophecied

Jeremiah 31:33
"But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

The law being on our heart and how that works is gone into extensively in a few different writings found in the NT. The point is the covenant of the law was conditional and Israel broke that condition.

Soul Invictus

I thought Christian theology proposes that Jesus was always around ( In the beginning was the word...etc.)?

Soul Invictus

And why not? The scripture appears to undeniably state so.

Therefore Jesus came to establish a new covenant.

Why? I am not as versed for this reasoning.

The point is the covenant of the law was conditional and Israel broke that condition.

What covenant was conditional? What was the terms of this covenant?

Magus55

Yup He was.

Magus55

Because the Jews couldn't follow the original covenant.


The Old covenant ( Mosaic Laws). The terms were to obey the laws.

mark9950

Where is the word NEW?And what does this have to do with Jesus?

Soul Invictus

My point exactly. I was simply addressing Lanakila's concernt that Christians might dismiss the scripture based on Jesus' incarnation hadn't come to fruition. Thanks for the confirmation.