mark9950

"God is not a man, who can lie, nor the son of man, who relents.… He has not beheld iniquity in Jacob, nor has He seen perverseness in Israel" (Numbers 23:19).

As this verse proves that Jesus was not a savior or messiah or GOD for that matter.

Fundies try to refute this.You cant without discrediting the whole Bible.

Soul Invictus

I haven't found an apologetic for this verse yet. Let me know if you do.

Lanakila

What translation is that from? The NIV has that differently Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

This was before Jesus incarnation so the xians will just dismiss it as out of context or something. I agree that its troublesome, but doubt it will move them much.

seebs

Well, given that prophets later comment on perverseness in Israel, I don't see anything all that weird about it; it was true of the world that existed when it was written.

A history book isn't wrong just because things have changed since the period it covers.

iFeel

First it has to qualify as a history book.

seebs

Are you familiar with the concept of an "analogy"?

mark9950

We must not forget the mindset of the ancient jews.

They believed that God was not a man.

Jesus claimed to be God.

Jesus was accused of blasphemy and killed.

The most important part is really the mindset of the ancient writers when they were writing the book.Without understand who these people really were leads to interpretations not really there.

Mike(ATL)

Please just read the text:

Numbers 23:19-20
19
"God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent;
Has He said, and will He not do it?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
20
"Behold, I have received a command to bless;
When He has blessed, then I cannot revoke it.

All he's saying here is that God's word is good, God's not a fallable man that lies and repents. His command is good. The word "son of man" there has nothing to do with the Messiah.

Kilgore Trout

If god can't lie, why did he tell the Hebrews that they must follow the commands in the Torah FOREVER and then in the NT Jesus and Paul say not to follow those commands any more. In Mark 7:14-23 Jesus says nothing you can eat can make you unclean. That's completely contrary to the strict dietary laws that god gave to the Hebrews.

So either Jesus is not god or god is a liar. Take your choice.

Magus55

Verse that says the Hebrews must follow the Torah forever?