Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ThinkDifferent · 01-07-2005, 08:31 AM

http://www.geocities.com/islamicmira...prophet_p4.htm

Were you aware of this "fact"?

premjan · 01-07-2005, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThinkDifferent

http://www.geocities.com/islamicmira...prophet_p4.htm

Were you aware of this "fact"?

I thought the Kalki Avatar itself was a recent ripoff of the white horseman in the Bible Book of Revelations...

but ... apparently from a translation of the Vishnu Purana...

Quote:

The Kalki Avatar

When the practices taught by the Vedas and the institutes of law,
Shall nearly have ceased, and the close of the Kali age shall be nigh,
A portion of that Divine Being who exists of his own spiritual nature,
In the character of Brahma, and who is the beginning and the end,
And who comprehends all things shall descend upon the earth.
He will be born as Kalki in the family of an eminent brahmin,
Of Sambhala village, endowed with the eight superhuman faculties.
By his irresistible might, He will destroy all the barbarians and thieves,
And all whose minds are devoted to iniquity.
He will then reestablish righteousness upon earth;
And the minds of those who live at the end of the Kali age, shall be awakened, and shall be as pellucid as crystal.
The men who are thus changed by virtue of that peculiar time,
Shall be as the seeds of human beings,
And shall give birth to a race who shall follow the laws of the Krita Age, the Age of Purity.

Vishnu Purana 4.24

Quote:

The Kings will be of churlish spirit, violent temper,
And will be ever addicted to falsehood and wickedness.
They will inflict death to women, children, and cows;
They will seize the property of subjects, be of unlimited power,
And will, for most part, rapidly rise and fall; their lives will be short,
Their desires insatiable, and they will display but little piety.
The people of various countries intermingling with them,
Will follow their various example;
And the barbarians being powerful in the patronage of princes,
Whilst purer tribes are neglected, the people will perish.
Wealth and piety will decrease day by day,
Until the world shall be wholly depraved.
Property alone will confer rank, wealth will be the only source of devotion,
Passion will be the sole bond of union between the sexes,
Falsehood will be the only means of success in litigation,
And women will be the objects merely of sensual gratification.
Earth will be venerated only for its mineral treasures;
The brahminical thread will constitute a brahmin;
External types will be the only distinction of the several orders of life,
Dishonesty will be the universal means of subsistence,
Weakness will be the cause of dependence,
Menace and presumption will be the subterfuge for learning,
Liberality will be devotion, simple ablution will be purification.
Mutual assent will be marriage, fine clothes will be dignity,
And water afar will be esteemed a holy spring . .
Thus, in the Kali Yuga shall decay flourish,
Until the human race approaches annihilation.

Vishnu Purana

Here is the bit from Revelations:

Quote:

Worship God: For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse;
And he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True,
And in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns;
And he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood:
And his name is called the Word of God.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses,
Clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword,
That with it he should smite the nations:
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron:
And he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness, and wrath of Almighty God.
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written,
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 19:11-16

premjan · 01-07-2005, 10:00 AM

Quote:

A friend of mine (a Shi'a), Isa, responded to reading this synopsis thusly:

"Interesting stuff. The only problem is that Kalki Avatar can't be Muhammad (sal) since Kalki Avatar is supposed to be the Interesting stuff. The only problem is that Kalki Avatar can't be Muhammad (sal) since Kalki Avatar is supposed to be the "Savior" in the Kali Yuga/Saya Yuga transition which occurs between 1999 and 2003. Noteably, the Double Ramadan Eclipse happens this Shahar Ramadan, confirming that the Kalki Avatar is Al-Mahdi (atfs), not Muhammad (sal)."

I have nowhere NEAR the knowledge to comment on this myself, and do not wish to start some kind of crazy Shi'a/Sunni debate, or any debate at all. My feelings on these analysis of Hindu and Islamic texts/beliefs is wholly neutral, based principally on the fact that I myself can't arrive at my own conclusions, yet.

Very interesting, though, interesting indeed.
wasalaam,
johnny

http://hindustan.net/discus/messages/53/7724.html?1002036870

I would say that it is more likely that Kalki (meaning without blemish) is the Mahdi rather than Muhammad. This would also provide a link between Christianity, Islam and Hinduism (and possibly Buddhism and Judaism, if this also corresponds to the Jewish Messiah and the Maitreya Buddha though Kalki sounds more like an angry than a friendly guy; perhaps Buddhists would like to remain out of this prophecy mongery).

I found the reference to "Shambala" as the birthplace of Kalki as a rather interesting point: I always thought of Shamballa as some Buddhist mythological Holy Place. Maybe there is a link between the Vishnu Purana and the (Tibetan) Buddhists.

premjan · 01-07-2005, 10:09 AM

Here is an interesting point I came across: Buddhists cannot be considered to be people of the book principally because they revere "saints" (principally the Buddha) and Sufis are apparently the same. Only those who accept the word of God unmediated by man (i.e. the Koran) can apparently be considered Muslims (OK, don't ask me about the Sunnah my guess would be that that is the word of man, not God).

Quote:

they are not considered people of the book because
they do not believe in Allah(swt),they have too many other gods.
Not all Buddhists worship "gods" or "buddhas". They respect people who went before them, much like Sufis respect their Saints too.

also from Islamicaweb...

lenrek · 01-07-2005, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

Here is an interesting point I came across: Buddhists cannot be considered to be people of the book principally because they revere "saints" (principally the Buddha) and Sufis are apparently the same...

Ah... No wonder they hate us...

* sorry for the rant *

lenrek · 01-07-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThinkDifferent

http://www.geocities.com/islamicmira...prophet_p4.htm

Frankly, for some reason, my intuition tells me is nothing but bullshit...

Dharma · 01-20-2005, 08:14 AM

This is what is scary about the "Abrahamic" religions. They understand nothing and they make stupid claims. Kalki Avatar is actually a rip off of the Hindu/Buddhist stuff that has been put in Christianity. It is part of the Das Avatar (10 Avatar) meditation in Hinduism and is an advanced spiritual technique in Buddhism called "Kalachakra Tantra"...

Mohammad and Christ can't be Kalki since they are not a part of Aryan spiritual lineages who trace their lineage from Manu (Man) and the seven Rishis, not Adam and Kalki is an Aryan. And Manu and Adam are two different concepts and are not related at all.

KrishnadasaAnudasa · 02-04-2005, 07:38 PM

but not as kalki kalki is at the end of Kali Yuga 427,000 years longer. started after Krishna depature 5000 years ago and last 432000 years

here is some refernce to kalki
Canto 12: The Age of Deterioration
Chapter 2: The Symptoms of Kali-yuga

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bh�?gavatam

SB 12.2 Summary

SB 12.2.1: Śukadeva Gosv�?mī said: Then, O King, religion, truthfulness, cleanliness, tolerance, mercy, duration of life, physical strength and memory will all diminish day by day because of the powerful influence of the age of Kali.

SB 12.2.2: In Kali-yuga, wealth alone will be considered the sign of a man's good birth, proper behavior and fine qualities. And law and justice will be applied only on the basis of one's power.

SB 12.2.3: Men and women will live together merely because of superficial attraction, and success in business will depend on deceit. Womanliness and manliness will be judged according to one's expertise in sex, and a man will be known as a br�?hmaṇa just by his wearing a thread.

SB 12.2.4: A person's spiritual position will be ascertained merely according to external symbols, and on that same basis people will change from one spiritual order to the next. A person's propriety will be seriously questioned if he does not earn a good living. And one who is very clever at juggling words will be considered a learned scholar.

SB 12.2.5: A person will be judged unholy if he does not have money, and hypocrisy will be accepted as virtue. Marriage will be arranged simply by verbal agreement, and a person will think he is fit to appear in public if he has merely taken a bath.

SB 12.2.6: A sacred place will be taken to consist of no more than a reservoir of water located at a distance, and beauty will be thought to depend on one's hairstyle. Filling the belly will become the goal of life, and one who is audacious will be accepted as truthful. He who can maintain a family will be regarded as an expert man, and the principles of religion will be observed only for the sake of reputation.

SB 12.2.7: As the earth thus becomes crowded with a corrupt population, whoever among any of the social classes shows himself to be the strongest will gain political power.

SB 12.2.8: Losing their wives and properties to such avaricious and merciless rulers, who will behave no better than ordinary thieves, the citizens will flee to the mountains and forests.

SB 12.2.9: Harassed by famine and excessive taxes, people will resort to eating leaves, roots, flesh, wild honey, fruits, flowers and seeds. Struck by drought, they will become completely ruined.

SB 12.2.10: The citizens will suffer greatly from cold, wind, heat, rain and snow. They will be further tormented by quarrels, hunger, thirst, disease and severe anxiety.

SB 12.2.11: The maximum duration of life for human beings in Kali-yuga will become fifty years.

SB 12.2.12-16: By the time the age of Kali ends, the bodies of all creatures will be greatly reduced in size, and the religious principles of followers of varṇ�?śrama will be ruined. The path of the Vedas will be completely forgotten in human society, and so-called religion will be mostly atheistic. The kings will mostly be thieves, the occupations of men will be stealing, lying and needless violence, and all the social classes will be reduced to the lowest level of śūdras. Cows will be like goats, spiritual hermitages will be no different from mundane houses, and family ties will extend no further than the immediate bonds of marriage. Most plants and herbs will be tiny, and all trees will appear like dwarf śamī trees. Clouds will be full of lightning, homes will be devoid of piety, and all human beings will have become like asses. At that time, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will appear on the earth. Acting with the power of pure spiritual goodness, He will rescue eternal religion.

SB 12.2.17: Lord Viṣṇu — the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the spiritual master of all moving and nonmoving living beings, and the Supreme Soul of all — takes birth to protect the principles of religion and to relieve His saintly devotees from the reactions of material work.

SB 12.2.18: Lord Kalki will appear in the home of the most eminent br�?hmaṇa of Śambhala village, the great soul Viṣṇuyaś�?.

SB 12.2.19-20: Lord Kalki, the Lord of the universe, will mount His swift horse Devadatta and, sword in hand, travel over the earth exhibiting His eight mystic opulences and eight special qualities of Godhead. Displaying His unequaled effulgence and riding with great speed, He will kill by the millions those thieves who have dared dress as kings.

SB 12.2.21: After all the impostor kings have been killed, the residents of the cities and towns will feel the breezes carrying the most sacred fragrance of the sandalwood paste and other decorations of Lord V�?sudeva, and their minds will thereby become transcendentally pure.

SB 12.2.22: When Lord V�?sudeva, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, appears in their hearts in His transcendental form of goodness, the remaining citizens will abundantly repopulate the earth.

SB 12.2.23: When the Supreme Lord has appeared on earth as Kalki, the maintainer of religion, Satya-yuga will begin, and human society will bring forth progeny in the mode of goodness.

SB 12.2.24: When the moon, the sun and Bṛhaspatī are together in the constellation Karkaṭa, and all three enter simultaneously into the lunar mansion Puṣy�? — at that exact moment the age of Satya, or Kṛta, will begin.

SB 12.2.25: Thus I have described all the kings — past, present and future — who belong to the dynasties of the sun and the moon.

premjan · 02-04-2005, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma

This is what is scary about the "Abrahamic" religions. They understand nothing and they make stupid claims. Kalki Avatar is actually a rip off of the Hindu/Buddhist stuff that has been put in Christianity. It is part of the Das Avatar (10 Avatar) meditation in Hinduism and is an advanced spiritual technique in Buddhism called "Kalachakra Tantra"...

Mohammad and Christ can't be Kalki since they are not a part of Aryan spiritual lineages who trace their lineage from Manu (Man) and the seven Rishis, not Adam and Kalki is an Aryan. And Manu and Adam are two different concepts and are not related at all.

Actually if the Hebrew are capable of ripping of Yahvah from the Mitanni Vedic mythology then I bet they are capable of borrowing Adam as their own modified version of Manu. After all Adam also literally means "Man" (Manu means man or mind) maybe it is just a change of language.

Dharma · 02-05-2005, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

Actually if the Hebrew are capable of ripping of Yahvah from the Mitanni Vedic mythology then I bet they are capable of borrowing Adam as their own modified version of Manu. After all Adam also literally means "Man" (Manu means man or mind) maybe it is just a change of language.

Adam is an entirely different tradition...Adam means earth whereas Manu means Mind...Adam is an aspect of Manu...the more abstract a concept the higher the concept...so the Manu concept is higher or beyond Adam thus they are different and are not the same.

01-07-2005, 08:31 AM	#1
ThinkDifferent Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: India Posts: 193	Prophet Mohammed is Kalki Avatar! http://www.geocities.com/islamicmira...prophet_p4.htm Were you aware of this "fact"?

02-04-2005, 07:38 PM	#8
KrishnadasaAnudasa Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 87	vedic literatures perdict muhamad in the bavioshya purana but not as kalki kalki is at the end of Kali Yuga 427,000 years longer. started after Krishna depature 5000 years ago and last 432000 years here is some refernce to kalki Canto 12: The Age of Deterioration Chapter 2: The Symptoms of Kali-yuga Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bh�?gavatam SB 12.2 Summary SB 12.2.1: Śukadeva Gosv�?mī said: Then, O King, religion, truthfulness, cleanliness, tolerance, mercy, duration of life, physical strength and memory will all diminish day by day because of the powerful influence of the age of Kali. SB 12.2.2: In Kali-yuga, wealth alone will be considered the sign of a man's good birth, proper behavior and fine qualities. And law and justice will be applied only on the basis of one's power. SB 12.2.3: Men and women will live together merely because of superficial attraction, and success in business will depend on deceit. Womanliness and manliness will be judged according to one's expertise in sex, and a man will be known as a br�?hmaṇa just by his wearing a thread. SB 12.2.4: A person's spiritual position will be ascertained merely according to external symbols, and on that same basis people will change from one spiritual order to the next. A person's propriety will be seriously questioned if he does not earn a good living. And one who is very clever at juggling words will be considered a learned scholar. SB 12.2.5: A person will be judged unholy if he does not have money, and hypocrisy will be accepted as virtue. Marriage will be arranged simply by verbal agreement, and a person will think he is fit to appear in public if he has merely taken a bath. SB 12.2.6: A sacred place will be taken to consist of no more than a reservoir of water located at a distance, and beauty will be thought to depend on one's hairstyle. Filling the belly will become the goal of life, and one who is audacious will be accepted as truthful. He who can maintain a family will be regarded as an expert man, and the principles of religion will be observed only for the sake of reputation. SB 12.2.7: As the earth thus becomes crowded with a corrupt population, whoever among any of the social classes shows himself to be the strongest will gain political power. SB 12.2.8: Losing their wives and properties to such avaricious and merciless rulers, who will behave no better than ordinary thieves, the citizens will flee to the mountains and forests. SB 12.2.9: Harassed by famine and excessive taxes, people will resort to eating leaves, roots, flesh, wild honey, fruits, flowers and seeds. Struck by drought, they will become completely ruined. SB 12.2.10: The citizens will suffer greatly from cold, wind, heat, rain and snow. They will be further tormented by quarrels, hunger, thirst, disease and severe anxiety. SB 12.2.11: The maximum duration of life for human beings in Kali-yuga will become fifty years. SB 12.2.12-16: By the time the age of Kali ends, the bodies of all creatures will be greatly reduced in size, and the religious principles of followers of varṇ�?śrama will be ruined. The path of the Vedas will be completely forgotten in human society, and so-called religion will be mostly atheistic. The kings will mostly be thieves, the occupations of men will be stealing, lying and needless violence, and all the social classes will be reduced to the lowest level of śūdras. Cows will be like goats, spiritual hermitages will be no different from mundane houses, and family ties will extend no further than the immediate bonds of marriage. Most plants and herbs will be tiny, and all trees will appear like dwarf śamī trees. Clouds will be full of lightning, homes will be devoid of piety, and all human beings will have become like asses. At that time, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will appear on the earth. Acting with the power of pure spiritual goodness, He will rescue eternal religion. SB 12.2.17: Lord Viṣṇu — the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the spiritual master of all moving and nonmoving living beings, and the Supreme Soul of all — takes birth to protect the principles of religion and to relieve His saintly devotees from the reactions of material work. SB 12.2.18: Lord Kalki will appear in the home of the most eminent br�?hmaṇa of Śambhala village, the great soul Viṣṇuyaś�?. SB 12.2.19-20: Lord Kalki, the Lord of the universe, will mount His swift horse Devadatta and, sword in hand, travel over the earth exhibiting His eight mystic opulences and eight special qualities of Godhead. Displaying His unequaled effulgence and riding with great speed, He will kill by the millions those thieves who have dared dress as kings. SB 12.2.21: After all the impostor kings have been killed, the residents of the cities and towns will feel the breezes carrying the most sacred fragrance of the sandalwood paste and other decorations of Lord V�?sudeva, and their minds will thereby become transcendentally pure. SB 12.2.22: When Lord V�?sudeva, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, appears in their hearts in His transcendental form of goodness, the remaining citizens will abundantly repopulate the earth. SB 12.2.23: When the Supreme Lord has appeared on earth as Kalki, the maintainer of religion, Satya-yuga will begin, and human society will bring forth progeny in the mode of goodness. SB 12.2.24: When the moon, the sun and Bṛhaspatī are together in the constellation Karkaṭa, and all three enter simultaneously into the lunar mansion Puṣy�? — at that exact moment the age of Satya, or Kṛta, will begin. SB 12.2.25: Thus I have described all the kings — past, present and future — who belong to the dynasties of the sun and the moon.

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01-20-2005, 08:14 AM	#7
Dharma Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: U.S. Posts: 1,398	This is what is scary about the "Abrahamic" religions. They understand nothing and they make stupid claims. Kalki Avatar is actually a rip off of the Hindu/Buddhist stuff that has been put in Christianity. It is part of the Das Avatar (10 Avatar) meditation in Hinduism and is an advanced spiritual technique in Buddhism called "Kalachakra Tantra"... Mohammad and Christ can't be Kalki since they are not a part of Aryan spiritual lineages who trace their lineage from Manu (Man) and the seven Rishis, not Adam and Kalki is an Aryan. And Manu and Adam are two different concepts and are not related at all.

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