Freethought & Rationalism Archive

noah · 04-21-2005, 03:15 AM

Does anybody know for sure when the Rapture doctrine first appeared in Christian theology? My understaning is that John Darby thought up the doctrine in the 1850s. I just read an apologist article,however, that cited Matthew Henry's commentary on Thessalonians 4:13-18 as proof that the doctrine was known before Darby concocted the concept.

Best,

andrewcriddle · 04-22-2005, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noah

Does anybody know for sure when the Rapture doctrine first appeared in Christian theology? My understaning is that John Darby thought up the doctrine in the 1850s. I just read an apologist article,however, that cited Matthew Henry's commentary on Thessalonians 4:13-18 as proof that the doctrine was known before Darby concocted the concept.

Best,

The passage from Matthew Henry's full commentary Matthew Henry reads as follows

Quote:

Verses 13-18
In these words the apostle comforts the Thessalonians who mourned for the death of their relations and friends that died in the Lord. His design is to dissuade them from excessive grief, or inordinate sorrow, on that account. All grief for the death of friends is far from being unlawful; we may weep at least for ourselves if we do not weep for them, weep for own loss, though it may be their fain. Yet we must not be immoderate in our sorrows, because,
I. This looks as if we had no hope, v. 13. It is to act too much like the Gentiles, who had no hope of a better life after this; whereas we Christians, who have a most sure hope, the hope of eternal life after this, which God who cannot lie hath promised us, should moderate all our joys and our sorrows on account of any worldly thing. This hope is more than enough to balance all our griefs upon account of any of the crosses of the present time.
II. This is an effect of ignorance concerning those who are dead, v. 13. There are some things which we cannot be ignorant of concerning those that are asleep; for the land they are removed to is a land of darkness, which we know but little of and have no correspondence with. To go among the dead is to go among we know not whom, and to live we know not how. Death is an unknown thing, and the state of the dead, or the state after death, we are much in the dark about; yet there are some things concerning those especially who die in the Lord that we need not, and ought not, to be ignorant of; and, if these things be really understood and duly considered, they will be sufficient to allay our sorrow concerning them.
1. They sleep in Jesus. They are asleep, v. 13. They have fallen asleep in Christ, 1 Co. 15:18. Death does not annihilate them. It is but a sleep to them. It is their rest, and undisturbed rest. They have retired out of this troublesome world, to rest from all their labours and sorrows, and they sleep in Jesus, v. 14. Being still in union with him, they sleep in his arms and are under his special care and protection. Their souls are in his presence, and their dust is under his care and power; so that they are not lost, nor are they losers, but great gainers by death, and their removal out of this world is into a better.
2. They shall be raised up from the dead, and awakened out of their sleep, for God will bring them with him, v. 14. They then are with God, and are better where they are than when they were here; and when God comes he will bring them with him. The doctrine of the resurrection and the second coming of Christ is a great antidote against the fear of death and inordinate sorrow for the death of our Christian friends; and this doctrine we have a full assurance of, because we believe that Jesus died and rose again, v. 14. It is taken for granted that as Christians they knew and believed this. The death and resurrection of Christ are fundamental articles of the Christian religion, and give us hope of a joyful resurrection; for Christ, having risen from the dead, has become the first fruits of those that slept; and therefore those who have fallen asleep in him have not perished nor are lost, 1 Co. 15:18, 20. His resurrection is a full confirmation of all that is said in the gospel, or by the word of the Lord, which has brought life and immortality to light.
3. Their state and condition shall be glorious and happy at the second coming of Christ. This the apostle informs the Thessalonians of by the word of the Lord (v. 15), by divine revelation from the Lord Jesus; for though the resurrection of the dead, and a future state of blessedness, were part of the creed of the Old-Testament saints, yet they are much more clearly revealed in and by the gospel. By this word of the Lord we know, (1.) That the Lord Jesus will come down from heaven in all the pomp and power of the upper world (v. 16): The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout. He ascended into heaven after his resurrection, and passed through these material heavens into the third heaven, which must retain him till the restitution of all things; and then he will come again, and appear in his glory. He will descend from heaven into this our air, v. 17. The appearance will be with pomp and power, with a shout—the shout of a king, and the power and authority of a mighty king and conqueror, with the voice of the archangel; an innumerable company of angels will attend him. Perhaps one, as general of those hosts of the Lord, will give notice of his approach, and the glorious appearance of this great Redeemer and Judge will be proclaimed and ushered in by the trump of God. For the trumpet shall sound, and this will awaken those that sleep in the dust of the earth, and will summon all the world to appear. For, (2.) The dead shall be raised: The dead in Christ shall rise first (v. 16), before those who are found alive at Christ's coming shall be changed; and so it appears that those who shall then be found alive shall not prevent those that are asleep, v. 15. The first care of the Redeemer in that day will be about his dead saints; he will raise them before the great change passes on those that shall be found alive: so that those who did not sleep in death will have no greater privilege or joy at that day than those who fell asleep in Jesus. (3.) Those that shall be found alive will then be changed. They shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, v. 17. At, or immediately before, this rapture into the clouds, those who are alive will undergo a mighty change, which will be equivalent to dying. This change is so mysterious that we cannot comprehend it: we know little or nothing of it, 1 Co. 15:51. Only, in the general, this mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies will be made fit to inherit the kingdom of God, which flesh and blood in its present state are not capable of. This change will be in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (1 Co. 15:52), in the very instant, or not long after the raising up of those that sleep in Jesus. And those who are raised, and thus changed, shall meet together in the clouds, and there meet with their Lord, to congratulate him on his coming, to receive the crown of glory he will then bestow upon them, and to be assessors with him in judgment, approving and applauding the sentence he will then pass upon the prince of the power of the air, and all the wicked, who shall be doomed to destruction with the devil and his angels. (4.) Here is the bliss of the saints at that day: they shall be ever with the Lord, v. 17. It will be some part of their felicity that all the saints shall meet together, and remain together for ever; but the principal happiness of heaven is this, to be with the Lord, to see him, live with him, and enjoy him, for ever. This should comfort the saints upon the death of their friends, that, although death has made a separation, yet their souls and bodies will meet again; we and they shall meet together again: we and they shall meet together again: we and they with all the saints shall meet our Lord, and be with him for ever, no more to be separated wither from him or from one another for ever. And the apostle would have us comfort one another with these words, v. 18. We should endeavour to support one another in times of sorrow, not deaden one another's spirits, nor weaken one another's hands, but should comfort one another; and this may be done by serious consideration and discourse on the many good lessons to be learned from the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead, the second coming of Christ, and the glory of the saints in that day.

IMO it doesn't teach a doctrine of the Rapture in the pre-Tribulationist sense of Darby.

(FWIW Darby had certainly developed his teaching on this point well before 1850 but that is another matter.)

Andrew Criddle

CJD · 04-22-2005, 06:16 AM

Most of the church understood this passage as a metaphor: 'the return of the King'. Just like in those days when Caesar would approach a city and the townsfolk would run out to meet him and then usher him back into the city, so too does the author of this pericope conceive of the coming of the Christ in this same manner. Paraphrase: "We who are in Christ will meet him on his way back, and we will return with him."

Among Darby's major gaffes is his missing the fact that one doesn't meet a king outside of the city and then not go into the city. Henry's 'happiness of heaven' is not the same thing. He is speaking of that time when, at the Lord's return, the new heavens (sky—not the transcendent realm) and new earth will be fashioned. Darby taught of an ensuing seven-year tribulation, a literal 1,000-year reign thereafter, etc., etc.

CJD

Clivedurdle · 04-22-2005, 10:15 AM

Quote:

sleep in Jesus

So all the xians who have died are not yet in heaven? Not eternity then!

Eternal life postponed! Not much of a hope if no one has yet found out about it!

Mageth · 04-22-2005, 10:22 AM

Rather than just the "rapture", what we're really talking about is dispensationalism and premillennialism, or "dispensational premillennialism". Here's a website that describes the history of these beliefs over the last couple of centuries:

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/cathouse/darby.htm

Note that Darby conceived of the idea of the "rapture" in about 1827.

Paradox · 04-22-2005, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

So all the xians who have died are not yet in heaven? Not eternity then!

Eternal life postponed! Not much of a hope if no one has yet found out about it!

No, they're supposed to be in heaven with Jesus, but waiting for a new heaven and new earth.

Regarding when this doctrine first came about, I do remember reading an article that pulled out a very early document that seemed to suggest a pretribulatuional rapture theology. Wasn't it Origen? If anyone can remember, please tell, otherwise I'll have a root around to see if I can dig it up.

Clivedurdle · 04-22-2005, 12:24 PM

Quote:

. They sleep in Jesus. They are asleep, v. 13. They have fallen asleep in Christ, 1 Co. 15:18. Death does not annihilate them. It is but a sleep to them. It is their rest, and undisturbed rest. They have retired out of this troublesome world, to rest from all their labours and sorrows, and they sleep in Jesus, v. 14. Being still in union with him, they sleep in his arms and are under his special care and protection. Their souls are in his presence, and their dust is under his care and power; so that they are not lost, nor are they losers, but great gainers by death, and their removal out of this world is into a better.

So Matthew Henry got the above wrong?

CJD · 04-22-2005, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Paradox wrote:
Regarding when this doctrine first came about, I do remember reading an article that pulled out a very early document that seemed to suggest a pretribulatuional rapture theology. Wasn't it Origen? If anyone can remember, please tell, otherwise I'll have a root around to see if I can dig it up.

That article must have been by a dispensationalist, then. That said, chiliasm, or in modern terms, a millenarianist, did not sit well with Origin. He takes sharp aim at it in De principiis. Most early churchmen conceived of the kingdom in literal, earthy terms. The only difference between this world and that is its holiness: "Heaven on Earth," etc. Origin, being a kind of dualist, disdained the physical world and taught something akin to a "millennial," disembodied (though a spiritual, resurrected body) intermediate state. This would not happen, so Origin, "pre-tribulational" or whatever; it would happen at the end when Jesus returned.

Dr. Hill's Regnum Caelorum discusses this a good bit.

Best,

CJD

Clivedurdle · 04-22-2005, 12:33 PM

Quote:

They shall be raised up from the dead, and awakened out of their sleep, for God will bring them with him, v. 14. They then are with God, and are better where they are than when they were here; and when God comes he will bring them with him.

The doctrine of the resurrection and the second coming of Christ is a great antidote against the fear of death and inordinate sorrow for the death of our Christian friends; and this doctrine we have a full assurance of, because we believe that Jesus died and rose again,

In fact it is a tautology.

The rapture and the second coming are required to be true so that 'those who have gone before us" will not have died in vain.

But the reality is as Monty Python put it in the dead parrot sketch.

Why isn't the Rapture orginally in the New Testament? The Second Coming is, the Rapture is only a tidying up of some loose threads about drivers of cars disappearing unexpectedly...

John A. Broussard · 04-22-2005, 12:37 PM

Actually the rapture comes from an old legend where the divine leader is on earth and says "Beam me up, Scotty."

04-21-2005, 03:15 AM	#1
noah Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 287	Origin of the Rapture Doctrine Does anybody know for sure when the Rapture doctrine first appeared in Christian theology? My understaning is that John Darby thought up the doctrine in the 1850s. I just read an apologist article,however, that cited Matthew Henry's commentary on Thessalonians 4:13-18 as proof that the doctrine was known before Darby concocted the concept. Best,

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04-22-2005, 06:16 AM	#3
CJD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: greater Orlando area Posts: 832	Most of the church understood this passage as a metaphor: 'the return of the King'. Just like in those days when Caesar would approach a city and the townsfolk would run out to meet him and then usher him back into the city, so too does the author of this pericope conceive of the coming of the Christ in this same manner. Paraphrase: "We who are in Christ will meet him on his way back, and we will return with him." Among Darby's major gaffes is his missing the fact that one doesn't meet a king outside of the city and then not go into the city. Henry's 'happiness of heaven' is not the same thing. He is speaking of that time when, at the Lord's return, the new heavens (sky—not the transcendent realm) and new earth will be fashioned. Darby taught of an ensuing seven-year tribulation, a literal 1,000-year reign thereafter, etc., etc. CJD

04-22-2005, 10:22 AM	#5
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Rather than just the "rapture", what we're really talking about is dispensationalism and premillennialism, or "dispensational premillennialism". Here's a website that describes the history of these beliefs over the last couple of centuries: http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/cathouse/darby.htm Note that Darby conceived of the idea of the "rapture" in about 1827.

04-22-2005, 12:37 PM	#10
John A. Broussard Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Hawaii Posts: 6,629	Actually the rapture comes from an old legend where the divine leader is on earth and says "Beam me up, Scotty."

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